Dead.
I had a slight grudge against her based on things I heard about her and how she fucked over Carson, plus how she acted towards Annie Duke on Celebrity Apprentice (it was rigged for Joan to win despite her raising $2 million less than Annie).
Still, I found her humorous and I know it was artificial, but she looked great for 81.
I think I'd describe her as a funny, more intelligent, and sober Chelsea Handler.
Edited By Leisher on 1409857854
Joan Rivers
TheCatt wrote:Leisher wrote:plus how she acted towards Annie Duke on Celebrity Apprentice
Seriously, what a cunt.
Are you being serious or sarcastic?
I know it seems trivial, but it confirmed all the stories I'd heard about what she was really like backstage.
She was ridiculously talented and smart, but just because someone dies doesn't mean we have to all pretend we loved her or that she was a super duper nice person.
Anthony Jeselnik @anthonyjeselnik 51s
Joan Rivers once told me she would die before she'd ever apologize for a joke. I'm glad she made it.
Comedy Central was unwise to cancel his show.
Edited By Leisher on 1409860549
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
I think being a bitch for women in comedy that came up in that time was pretty much the norm. From all I've seen and heard, it was hard to survive in the field as a female otherwise.
I remember seeing pictures of Phyllis Diller after she died from when she was younger and made up and she was rather attractive. But she was told that that she wouldn't be taken seriously as a comic if she was attractive, so she wore the most unflattering clothes (if I recall, she had a decent figure as well) and made her self up as hideously as possible because that was the only way she was going to be able to do what she loved.
We're a long way from there, but I'm willing to cut her some slack.
I remember seeing pictures of Phyllis Diller after she died from when she was younger and made up and she was rather attractive. But she was told that that she wouldn't be taken seriously as a comic if she was attractive, so she wore the most unflattering clothes (if I recall, she had a decent figure as well) and made her self up as hideously as possible because that was the only way she was going to be able to do what she loved.
We're a long way from there, but I'm willing to cut her some slack.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
I think being a bitch for women in comedy that came up in that time was pretty much the norm. From all I've seen and heard, it was hard to survive in the field as a female otherwise.
I remember seeing pictures of Phyllis Diller after she died from when she was younger and made up and she was rather attractive. But she was told that that she wouldn't be taken seriously as a comic if she was attractive, so she wore the most unflattering clothes (if I recall, she had a decent figure as well) and made her self up as hideously as possible because that was the only way she was going to be able to do what she loved.
We're a long way from there, but I'm willing to cut her some slack.
I get that, but it's all contradicted for me because she basically screwed over the guy who made her a household name, Johnny Carson.
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
Eh... I don't know how badly she screwed him over. It's not like she was going to get The Tonight Show when he retired. Having a woman as the perm guest host in the 80's is one thing. Having her as the regular host wasn't going to fly at that time. And I'm not saying they were wrong in their thinking. I don't think she could have carried the show anyway. I don't think he interview skills were nearly good enough for that.
All that being said, I don't know how much I blame her for taking the shot with another network. I think it was foolish of her to think Carson wasn't going to be a bit miffed about it, but I don't blame her for taking a swing at it.
All that being said, I don't know how much I blame her for taking the shot with another network. I think it was foolish of her to think Carson wasn't going to be a bit miffed about it, but I don't blame her for taking a swing at it.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
I believe Carson wanted her to replace him, although you're right about the network probably scoffing at the idea.Vince wrote:Eh... I don't know how badly she screwed him over. It's not like she was going to get The Tonight Show when he retired. Having a woman as the perm guest host in the 80's is one thing. Having her as the regular host wasn't going to fly at that time. And I'm not saying they were wrong in their thinking. I don't think she could have carried the show anyway. I don't think he interview skills were nearly good enough for that.
All that being said, I don't know how much I blame her for taking the shot with another network. I think it was foolish of her to think Carson wasn't going to be a bit miffed about it, but I don't blame her for taking a swing at it.
It was her not telling him that caused him to get really pissed.
I said "seriously."
She was a complete bitch.
OK, like 10% sarcastic... but 90% serious.
Before that show, I honestly didn't mind her, and enjoyed her snark. Through the first couple of episodes, she was great, but then her true personality started to emerge, and it wasn't pretty. She was very vindictive, petty, and clearly threatened by younger women. She attacked Annie Duke's character ruthlessly and without cause except it was a younger woman in her way.
That's when the Carson stories were getting lots of press too.
So I've had a negative opinion of her since then. It doesn't discount her amazing career and talent for me, but I definitely wouldn't go out of my way to see anything she was in or on for the past few years.
And honestly, I thought she was someone who would live to be 100+. She just seemed to have that kind of energy.
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
I'll agree 100% that not giving him a head's up was not cool.Leisher wrote:I believe Carson wanted her to replace him, although you're right about the network probably scoffing at the idea.
It was her not telling him that caused him to get really pissed.
But she wasn't a strong enough interviewer to take his place. I remember one time she was hosting. Forget who was on the show but it was a male sex symbol flavor of the day that had just done some movie. Joan was gushing over him, which was fine. Next guest came out and he was some nerdy guy that was on for something or other he'd done I think. One of those "human interest" type stories. Joan kept talking to the hot guy. Nerdy guy was making jokes and getting tons of laughs and that started irritating Joan. That was when I realized she wasn't ready for that.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
TheCatt wrote:Leisher wrote:TheCatt wrote:
Seriously, what a cunt.
Are you being serious or sarcastic?
I said "seriously."
She was a complete bitch.
OK, like 10% sarcastic... but 90% serious.
Complete asshole/bitch would (according to a sizable swath of people) describe the following, aka most of the comics I like:
George Carlin
Richard Pryor
Lenny Bruce
Andy Kaufman
Anthony Jeselnik
Bill Hicks
Amy Schumer
Don Rickles
Sam Kinison
Sarah Silverman
I could go on. If you aren't offending someone with your comedy, I question its comedic content. Yes, I am looking MOTHERFUCKING squarely at you, Bill Cosby. Even these dudes, Canadians, take shots at people. That's probably the least offensive show I've followed since grade school.
Edited By Malcolm on 1409880705
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
I think Cosby was perfect for his time.Malcolm wrote:I could go on. If you aren't offending someone with your comedy, I question its comedic content. Yes, I am looking MOTHERFUCKING squarely at you, Bill Cosby.
Is there anybody out there now who is making it and HASN'T gone blue?
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
GORDON wrote:Malcolm wrote:I could go on. If you aren't offending someone with your comedy, I question its comedic content. Yes, I am looking MOTHERFUCKING squarely at you, Bill Cosby.
I think Cosby was perfect for his time.
Is there anybody out there now who is making it and HASN'T gone blue?
Entertainment without absurdity feels forced. That's what Bill Cosby is. That and watching him make those stupid fucking faces. Then again, this is coming from a dude that believes existence itself is bad comedy.
Edited By Malcolm on 1409880813
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
When I came of age and started listening to records (yeah, records) I found my Dad's stash... in all that weird 70's rock he had "Bill Cosby: Himself," "George Carlin: Class Clown," and 2 "Smothers Brothers" albums. I can probably recite all 4 of those albums word for word.
SB were the original Tenacious D.
And I was the first kid in grade school who could recite the 7 dirty words.
And I always get it when Leisher says, "How long can you tread water?"
SB were the original Tenacious D.
And I was the first kid in grade school who could recite the 7 dirty words.
And I always get it when Leisher says, "How long can you tread water?"
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Kevin James. He said early on his mom and aunt came to see his routine and he was careful to keep it clean. Then he made the observation that some's mother and aunt were at all of his shows and stayed away from that sort of material.GORDON wrote:I think Cosby was perfect for his time.Malcolm wrote:I could go on. If you aren't offending someone with your comedy, I question its comedic content. Yes, I am looking MOTHERFUCKING squarely at you, Bill Cosby.
Is there anybody out there now who is making it and HASN'T gone blue?
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Seinfeld keeps is fairly clean. Sitcom and routine. Saw him on an HBO interview and he was talking about the one time he used the word "fuck" on stage ... about two decades plus prior.
A fine example of sharp satire masquerading as "tame" comedy.
Edited By Malcolm on 1409882502
SB were the original Tenacious D.
A fine example of sharp satire masquerading as "tame" comedy.
Edited By Malcolm on 1409882502
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Complete asshole/bitch would (according to a sizable swath of people) describe the following, aka most of the comics I like:
I like that list too, but I disagree that the labels fit them all. Sure folks might label them that due to their material, but off camera that's where it counts, and I know a few of those folks are considered very nice off stage.
Plus, that's kind of a different conversation. There's a huge difference between an asshole and someone who betrays friends for personal gain.
I think Cosby was perfect for his time.
Agreed.
Malcolm, you'd be VERY hard pressed to find a comic who agrees with your stance on Cosby. He had some brilliant material before The Cosby Show, and never had to be blue. He's a legend. In fact, Bill Burr was just talking about this fact on a recent podcast.
"How long can you tread water?"
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
That was the first instance of the "If pro/con are opposites then what is the opposite of progress?" joke... that I am aware of. I want to say that was late 60's, so....Malcolm wrote:A fine example of sharp satire masquerading as "tame" comedy.SB were the original Tenacious D.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."