Oh come on, I never said that. Jeez... lighten up.Vince wrote:Heheh... Sorry Leisher. That just sort of set me off that somehow looking for possible unintended consequences to the argument meant I wanted to sleep with my sister or something.
Marriage Equality
We're being told by the liberals/progressives now that we need to treat people as the sex they identify with, and by their orientation no matter their age!
That's insane.
And before you put all your eggs in the "born that way" basket, that can't be the defining line of liberty or we're going to have some issues with sociopaths.
I prefer to deal with psychos and pedos without tricking myself into believing there's some way to "cure" them. If you've got a fundamental behaviour ingrained in you of which society vehemently disapproves, your options are limited to discipline and restraint. This also gets near the "do your rights stop at the tip of my nose" debate.
Saying that a marriage is a union between a man and a woman is a shit ton less arbitrary than saying an 18 year old is mature enough to decide to marry, but a 17 year old isn't.
The age of majority in this country is bullshit, but that's a totally separate issue. Even if it's a more ridiculous rule, that doesn't make the less ridiculous one ok.
Finally, being underage is something you'll definitely grow out of in time (physically speaking). Your sexual proclivities? Maybe, maybe not.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
There does seem to be a bit of a disconnect between saying, "Don't oppress homosexuals because you can not control who you are attracted to, and that makes it ok" and, "Put all pedos in jail forever because they are attracted to minors and that is just sick."Malcolm wrote:I prefer to deal with psychos and pedos without tricking myself into believing there's some way to "cure" them. If you've got a fundamental behaviour ingrained in you of which society vehemently disapproves, your options are limited to discipline and restraint. This also gets near the "do your rights stop at the tip of my nose" debate.And before you put all your eggs in the "born that way" basket, that can't be the defining line of liberty or we're going to have some issues with sociopaths.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Did I pass judgement on the pedos there? Psychos ... yeah, I've got a bit more of an ax to grind on them, so I'm inclined to jail/execute them, particularly the violent ones who have no interest in controlling themselves. In any case, I wouldn't jail anyone for being attracted to the minors. Attraction is not a crime.
Edited By Malcolm on 1394124980
Edited By Malcolm on 1394124980
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Right?Malcolm wrote:That's insane.We're being told by the liberals/progressives now that we need to treat people as the sex they identify with, and by their orientation no matter their age!
Unfortunately, that's what we're being told.
Think about it. The age of consent is when society has decided a person is old enough to determine if they should have sex or not. This number varies by state and country, because obviously people develop differently based on geopolitical lines...
However, even before a person is supposedly old enough to make that decision, they can decide who they want to sleep with, and what sex they are themselves...
It just seems like the logic in the timing of all these decisions is off.
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
I really don't understand the difference between saying that about sociopaths and saying that about homosexuals other than the viewpoint of acceptability of the speaker. Replace "psychos and pedos" with "homosexuals" and there's really not a big difference in the argument. Only the perspective of the arguer.Malcolm wrote:I prefer to deal with psychos and pedos without tricking myself into believing there's some way to "cure" them. If you've got a fundamental behaviour ingrained in you of which society vehemently disapproves, your options are limited to discipline and restraint. This also gets near the "do your rights stop at the tip of my nose" debate.
Really it's not a separate issue. If society can restrict who you marry based only on age or familial relationships, why can't they restrict it based on sex? Can society restrict who you marry if both parties are willing based on social norms? They either can or they can't.The age of majority in this country is bullshit, but that's a totally separate issue. Even if it's a more ridiculous rule, that doesn't make the less ridiculous one ok.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
There does seem to be a bit of a disconnect between saying, "Don't oppress homosexuals because you can not control who you are attracted to, and that makes it ok" and, "Put all pedos in jail forever because they are attracted to minors and that is just sick."
Disconnect?
Who said to jail someone based on who you're attracted to? Now once you act on it, different story.
And obviously details of any case would apply. I don't think a 20 year old should be locked up forever because he/she slept with a 16 year old. Especially considering one state over that coupling might be legal.
However, a 40+ person trying to nail a 12 year old or something? There's no gray area there. He or she knows what they're doing.
Why do we have to pretend we can "cure" that person?
Plus, there's the whole "nobody gets caught their first time" thing.
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
So you're not a big Chris Hansen fan. Fair enough.GORDON wrote:I wasn't really arguing, I was just inserting that thought into the discussion.
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
I agree, but the community standards have to come into play there. The 40 year old and the 12 year old might not have any gray, but what about the 16 year old and the 25 year old? The 35 year old? What about 15 instead of 16?Leisher wrote:And obviously details of any case would apply. I don't think a 20 year old should be locked up forever because he/she slept with a 16 year old. Especially considering one state over that coupling might be legal.
We're in the process of trying to rid ourselves of moral norms in society. That usually doesn't end well.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Heyburn rejected the only justification offered by lawyers for (Governor) Beshear — that traditional marriages contribute to a stable birth rate and the state's long-term economic stability.
Wow, that's about the flimsiest argument you can bring to the table. But it gets better.
Attorney Leigh Latherow, whose Ashland firm was hired by Gov. Steve Beshear to defend the ban after Attorney General Jack Conway refused to do so, referred questions to a spokesman for the governor, Terry Sebastian, who said only that state would appeal.
Jesus. The State Attorney General refused to defend the state law.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Jesus. The State Attorney General refused to defend the state law.
Wow. The fact that we may have identified a State Attorney General that actually has a moral sense might be the most unbelievable thing I've heard in a very long time.
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
He is psychotic in other ways.TPRJones wrote:Wow. The fact that we may have identified a State Attorney General that actually has a moral sense might be the most unbelievable thing I've heard in a very long time.Jesus. The State Attorney General refused to defend the state law.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
It could be worse, we could be in Uganda.
This one you can absolutely blame on the Christians. Before Christianity came to Uganda, homosexuals there were treated just like everyone else. Homosexual marriage was accepted as normal. Then Jesus came in and taught them to hate the gays. *sigh*
And if you might reply that that's just a handful of radical Christians, I would point out that the other 90% of Christians aren't actively decrying their actions. If you would use that logic to brand all Muslims as evil terrorists then the same thing applies here and all Christians are responsible for the persecution of homosexuals in Uganda.
EDIT: Although, admittedly I wouldn't use that logic. As much as I dislike religion in general, I can't really put that blame on all of Christianity any more than I would blame all Muslims for terrorism. Sure the bible says to stone homosexuals, but come on, it also says to do the same to someone wearing poly-cotton blends or eating lobster. It's not homophobia so much as just another facet of a generally violent religion. It's just a shame that some people latch onto that particular piece of it so fiercely while ignoring the parts they don't like and consider that a reasonable thing to do.
Edited By TPRJones on 1404268284
This one you can absolutely blame on the Christians. Before Christianity came to Uganda, homosexuals there were treated just like everyone else. Homosexual marriage was accepted as normal. Then Jesus came in and taught them to hate the gays. *sigh*
And if you might reply that that's just a handful of radical Christians, I would point out that the other 90% of Christians aren't actively decrying their actions. If you would use that logic to brand all Muslims as evil terrorists then the same thing applies here and all Christians are responsible for the persecution of homosexuals in Uganda.
EDIT: Although, admittedly I wouldn't use that logic. As much as I dislike religion in general, I can't really put that blame on all of Christianity any more than I would blame all Muslims for terrorism. Sure the bible says to stone homosexuals, but come on, it also says to do the same to someone wearing poly-cotton blends or eating lobster. It's not homophobia so much as just another facet of a generally violent religion. It's just a shame that some people latch onto that particular piece of it so fiercely while ignoring the parts they don't like and consider that a reasonable thing to do.
Edited By TPRJones on 1404268284
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
Trying to find some info where Uganda had gay marriage before and it was treated as regular marriage before the official nation wide ban. Just kind of surprised by that, as before I had read the historically there were only a couple of cultures that accepted gay marriages (wanting to say a couple of them were American Indian tribes).TPRJones wrote:This one you can absolutely blame on the Christians. Before Christianity came to Uganda, homosexuals there were treated just like everyone else. Homosexual marriage was accepted as normal. Then Jesus came in and taught them to hate the gays. *sigh*
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren