Vince wrote:Can I force a Jewish baker to bake a cake for my dog's bat mitzvah?
That thing you're calling a "bat mitzvah" there isn't anywhere close to what a practicing Jew would call one because not one of them would recognize a dog as being able to participate in such a ceremony.
I'll cease going back and forth on this, but if they'd just declare their own intolerance instead of chalking it up to a particular group's ultra-selective interpretation of certain literature, I wouldn't mind so much.
Saying, "I don't approve of gay people or their lifestyle so I'm not doing business with them," is one thing. It's an honest thing that comes from someone's personality, and if they really, really believe that shit, then fine, let them run their shop into the ground as they see fit. Saying, "My religion doesn't approve of gay people or their lifestyle," is shifting the reason for that judgement off and away YOU and your own psyche and onto some old-ass sacred texts written millennia ago by dudes halfway across the globe living in a different era of history.
Sounds to me like the baker interacted fine. He (or she... I think it was a female) said, "I don't recognize gay marriage, I wish you the best but I can't make you a wedding cake."
You expect me to believe someone who doesn't think enough of homosexuals to do business with them is, in reality, totally cool with them on a personal level?
Edited By Malcolm on 1393384092
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Malcolm wrote:You expect me to believe someone who doesn't think enough of homosexuals to do business with them is, in reality, totally cool with them on a personal level?
See, here's where the gaystapo here has been going off the rails. The baker in the Oregon case did not refuse to do business with the gays. The refused to bake a cake for what they felt was a perversion and/or mockery of a religious sacrament.
Christians say to love the sinner but hate the sin. That's all I'm seeing from them here. You show me an instance where a baker refused to bake a birthday cake for a gay, and I'll agree with you that they are a bigot. Not wanting to be forced to help facilitate something they see as against God's will and against their moral conscience (gay marriage) is not hate. If you have a problem with someone's religion, that's fine. But don't try to mask your own bigotry as theirs.
** edited to say, when I say "you" I don't mean you personally. When I tried to write both parties in third person with qualifiers it became really clunky to follow.
Edited By Vince on 1393417953
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Vince wrote:See, here's where the gaystapo here has been going off the rails. The baker in the Oregon case did not refuse to do business with the gays. The refused to bake a cake for what they felt was a perversion and/or mockery of a religious sacrament.
That's fine, if it's a bakery that only bakes for their church. But once you enter the public space to bake for anyone, you've got to do it.
And, since marriage isn't an exclusively religious ceremony, they have no basis for that argument.
See, here's where the gaystapo here has been going off the rails. The baker in the Oregon case did not refuse to do business with the gays. The refused to bake a cake for what they felt was a perversion and/or mockery of a religious sacrament.
Would it be okay if they refused to bake cakes for interracial marriages, if they believe that interracial marriages are a perversion and/or mockery of their religious sacrament?
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
See, here's where the gaystapo here has been going off the rails. The baker in the Oregon case did not refuse to do business with the gays. The refused to bake a cake for what they felt was a perversion and/or mockery of a religious sacrament.
Would it be okay if they refused to bake cakes for interracial marriages, if they believe that interracial marriages are a perversion and/or mockery of their religious sacrament?
GORDON wrote:I think people should not be compelled by government to morality no matter how bigoted they are, but that's just me.
So Plessy v. Ferguson was a good ruling in your opinion?
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
TPRJones wrote:Would it be okay if they refused to bake cakes for interracial marriages, if they believe that interracial marriages are a perversion and/or mockery of their religious sacrament?
Would it be okay? No, not to me. Should it be the government's business? No.
Maybe the gays can sue the Pope now in the event he doesn't allow the church to marry the gays.
The last group anyone should want to have as the arbiters of morality is the government.
I tend to hold the more enlightened and mature approach to life that if you don't like me, I don't like you first. Tends to cut down a lot on this wadded panty crybaby shit.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Maybe the gays can sue the Pope now in the event he doesn't allow the church to marry the gays.
They gays don't give a fuck what Pope Frankie thinks. They do, however, very much give a fuck about the legal implications of being married to someone.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Maybe the gays can sue the Pope now in the event he doesn't allow the church to marry the gays.
They gays don't give a fuck what Pope Frankie thinks. They do, however, very much give a fuck about the legal implications of being married to someone.
And apparently about forcing someone to make a cake for them that doesn't want to make a cake for them.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
There are enough gays in all walks of life that they can pretty much get coverage of anything even if ALL heteros were to cut them off from their places of business.
Except for carpentry work. While I'm sure there are lesbians that can add a room onto your house, it will be poorly done because we all know woman suck at that sort of thing.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren