So you and your partner are pregnant, and the fetus is irregular, some super-rare non-treatable chromosome issue. If carried to term, the child may live a couple of decades, but will never live a normal life - Never speak, not be able to go to the bathroom on its own, etc.
What would you do?
Fetus is irregular
Fetus is irregular
It's not me, it's someone else.
Fetus is irregular
Long story short... Terminate as early as possible.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Fetus is irregular
Seconded. You're damn near making the kid's future sound like the same as a walking vegetable's.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Fetus is irregular
Abort the fetus. Punish the doctor and woman.
Fetus is irregular
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
Fetus is irregular
I think he was making some kind of nazi allusion?
So I was at dinner with some co-workers, and this topic came up, and one of my friends immediately said "Abort it, try again."
I was... stunned at how quickly and dismissively he said it. I mean, it's a life.
So I was at dinner with some co-workers, and this topic came up, and one of my friends immediately said "Abort it, try again."
I was... stunned at how quickly and dismissively he said it. I mean, it's a life.
It's not me, it's someone else.
Fetus is irregular
Life is not sacred. Life is brutal and short and meaningless.
Human life is not sacred. Fortunately thanks to technology it does not have to be brutal and short and meaningless. It can be quite pleasant and purposeful.
Under the given scenario that life is guaranteed to be brutal and short and meaningless. All it will accomplish is making a mess of the lives of the parents. Why go through all that if it can be identified in advance and avoided?
Human life is not sacred. Fortunately thanks to technology it does not have to be brutal and short and meaningless. It can be quite pleasant and purposeful.
Under the given scenario that life is guaranteed to be brutal and short and meaningless. All it will accomplish is making a mess of the lives of the parents. Why go through all that if it can be identified in advance and avoided?
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
Fetus is irregular
It's another Trump reference, of course!
Wife and I have discussed this and are of similar minds. But it's for the worst-case-scenario, which is what your example seems to be. It's a lot to consider, and I wouldn't want anyone telling me which way I'd have to choose. Especially the government.
I think there was a significant push-back right after the town-hall he said this at. He went public and changed his mind a few hours later.“You go back to a position like they had where they would perhaps go to illegal places,” Mr. Trump said, after initially deflecting questions. “But you have to ban it.”
He added, after a bit more prodding, “There has to be some form of punishment.”
Wife and I have discussed this and are of similar minds. But it's for the worst-case-scenario, which is what your example seems to be. It's a lot to consider, and I wouldn't want anyone telling me which way I'd have to choose. Especially the government.
Fetus is irregular
My wife has an aunt who has this kid you described. The kid is her youngest. She loves her and the kid has FAR outlived estimates. However, the kid does nothing on her own. Nothing.
Is that "life"? Grass is a life, but I'll bet you go out and cut the shit out of that once a week. You know the smell of fresh cut grass? That's grass screaming. Yet you love it. You're a fucking monster.
Seriously though, I think this goes beyond "when does life start". I wouldn't wish this upon anyone. Neither the condition itself nor being a parent in that situation. It makes me think of "One" or "Johnny Comes Marching Home". I think there's a point when you have to get past "life" and think about the "type of life".
We put animals down when they suffer.
We put humans down as punishment or in self defense.
We have abortions (and I'm not picking sides here) in an age with birth control everywhere, not to mention facials.
We had Jack Kavorkian (spelling?).
We cheered when bin Laden was killed.
We had courts rule on Terri Schiavo.
Why would this be considered murder?
Why would this be considered humane?
Which is worse: Ending a life never lived and doomed to never be lived even if born OR torturing parents and other family members with a financial, physical, and emotional burden that has no future whatsoever?
Is that "life"? Grass is a life, but I'll bet you go out and cut the shit out of that once a week. You know the smell of fresh cut grass? That's grass screaming. Yet you love it. You're a fucking monster.
Seriously though, I think this goes beyond "when does life start". I wouldn't wish this upon anyone. Neither the condition itself nor being a parent in that situation. It makes me think of "One" or "Johnny Comes Marching Home". I think there's a point when you have to get past "life" and think about the "type of life".
We put animals down when they suffer.
We put humans down as punishment or in self defense.
We have abortions (and I'm not picking sides here) in an age with birth control everywhere, not to mention facials.
We had Jack Kavorkian (spelling?).
We cheered when bin Laden was killed.
We had courts rule on Terri Schiavo.
Why would this be considered murder?
Why would this be considered humane?
Which is worse: Ending a life never lived and doomed to never be lived even if born OR torturing parents and other family members with a financial, physical, and emotional burden that has no future whatsoever?
Agreed. It's sad that it's really the case. Even if the government won't step in, the public will. No matter what you choose assholes will be there to tell you that you made the wrong decision.I wouldn't want anyone telling me which way I'd have to choose. Especially the government.
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
Fetus is irregular
We all like to think, "Well maybe this baby will beat the odds, the damage might be in the brain but I swear when she sees me, there's a sparkle in her eye!" But the reality is no, it's probably going to be... no magic, there. TPR was right, human life isn't actually sacred. Look around the world and you'll find that human life has nearly no value at all.
Abort it. I say this as someone who is generally pro-life (as a personal/moral decision, keep government out of the process). It's defective. Abort it, try again.
Abort it. I say this as someone who is generally pro-life (as a personal/moral decision, keep government out of the process). It's defective. Abort it, try again.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Fetus is irregular
You're the one who is a hitler.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Fetus is irregular
If it were just deformity my answer may have been different. It's the mental aspects as defined that made the choice for me.
Although looking again at the specific question the "never speak" led me to read more things into that that may not be there. Are we talking a brain that is so messed up it can't even achieve self-awareness? Or was it something much less extreme?
EDIT: Although I'm honestly not sure which would be worse: a human with no sentience to speak of or a perfectly fine brain trapped in a mostly non-functioning body. Tough choice. Even Stephen Hawking had a couple of good decades before the problems began.
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
Fetus is irregular
I dunno, it's loosely based on the kid one of my friends have. The disorder is exceptionally rare, literally 1 in a million. Another set of friends has another kid who I think will develop somewhat more, but never much, and will basically be a perpetual kid, although people with the disorder are often quite happy, so there's that?
Somehow it came up in conversation, and I found out my coworkers were Hitlers. Apparently most people I know are.
Somehow it came up in conversation, and I found out my coworkers were Hitlers. Apparently most people I know are.
It's not me, it's someone else.
Fetus is irregular
Well that's not nearly as bad as I was envisioning.
If it were me personally making the decision for myself (with the mother, of course), I'd still lean towards termination. But that's mainly because I have no interest in having children at all, and I can certainly understand anyone taking the other stance.
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
Fetus is irregular
This got jumped on fairly quickly. But let's even say, "It's a human life," which is somehow supposed to elevate it above fungi, plants, and lower animals. The quality of life described is shitty by any standard. Not because of the practical liabilities, but the complete dependency on others fucking sucks a lot out of it. I don't think I'd be able to justify it to myself from either a practical or ethical standpoint.I mean, it's a life.
Practically speaking, it's obviously a huge financial drag. Even if you beat the odds by a lot, that's what, 40 years of breathing and an existence pretty light on most of the things that seem to make life fun or worth living. Then again, if you don't know what you're missing out on or you're in a glorified coma, the brain doesn't know any better.
From an ethical perspective, even if you've got willing and infinite resources to take care of this person throughout the course of their life, I don't like it. If you can't do things on your own, you're totally reliant upon others for your own growth and "being on your own" isn't a thing. You're not going to contribute positively to your family, your community, etc. because you can't fucking do anything. You're not going to have a family, you're not going to make the next big scientific breakthrough, you're not going to do much of anything except be a massive reminder of humility for all those who have to take care of you.
The situation described offers less autonomy than Stephen Hawking, who at least got to walk around for a few years before he got confined to the wheelchair. I'm basing a lot of this on people I've known who had normal physical ability for some part of their lives then lost it, namely a few MS patients. They all said they'd trade their every last decade of deterioration for one year of being able to walk around and live again. These weren't people who got this way nobly, e.g. suffered crushing spinal injuries while saving a small child from a falling object. They began life with the same physical wherewithal as everyone else and it got slowly, inexorably drained away. Based on how those testimonials went, I wouldn't knowingly put any being into that situation or one worse.Although I'm honestly not sure which would be worse: a human with no sentience to speak of or a perfectly fine brain trapped in a mostly non-functioning body. Tough choice. Even Stephen Hawking had a couple of good decades before the problems began.
Yeah, but his definition of "deformed" was pretty fucking loose.Hitler wanted to exterminate the deformed, too.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Fetus is irregular
It would hurt my snowflake feelings less if you would call us Spartans instead. Just keeping this thread a safe space, thanks.TheCatt wrote: Somehow it came up in conversation, and I found out my coworkers were Hitlers. Apparently most people I know are.