Pets as children

[GORDON]

I get the concept of childless couples saying "Our dog is our child." We used to say that when we'd been married 10 years and hadn't had kids. It seemed harmless and we never gave it any thought.

And you sometimes see that exact sentiment on a bumper sticker... "My cat is my baby." SOmething to that affect.

The other day I saw a sticker in a back window, "My grandchild is a schnauzer." And I laughed out loud.... wow.... that has to be the biggest insult to an old person. You raise kids, and then they don't follow through and get you a sticker for your car about their stupid dog. "Gosh I hope that shnauzer gives me many golden memories in my later years."

[TPRJones]

It depends. Maybe the grandparents are into it and really love that dog.

"My pets are my children" may sound silly to some parents of human babies. But I've known some people who would kill to protect their dog just as fast as any parent would kill to protect their child. Silly or not, for some people it is very serious.

[TheCatt]

My siblings were late to have kids (late 30s for sister; brother no kids yet - older than you), but my sister got a dog, and my wife and i had rabbits, so we called them the grand puppy and grandbunnies.

[Vince]

My wife calls our pets our "kids" (I don't so much). We once had an Argentine Tegu that had a bowel problem. Took her to a Herp vet and he said he could do surgery. He worked up an estimate of what the cost would be. Up around two grand. I told him, not to sound heartless, but that's a lot of money. I'll never forget his response.

"Yeah. It comes down to, do you want a tegu or do you want that tegu. Because you could buy a lot of tegus for two thousand dollars."

I love my animals, but hard to justify spending that kind of money on an animal you're likely to outlive anyway.

[Leisher]

My mom brings my dog a pig ear every time she comes to the house. She has no pets of her own, and all three of her grand kids live here. (She spoils them too.)

To a lot of people pets aren't pets, they're family members. If you lived with an animal that loved you unconditionally, you fed it, you bathed it, it followed you around everywhere, etc. How you can look upon that life as an accessory rather than a part of you, I wouldn't understand.

But back to Gordo's point, I've seen those stickers and I chuckle too. Sometimes I'm sure it's ok with the grandparent and sometimes it's probably a sad reminder for them.

[GORDON]

I have an understanding with all the cats in the house: if the shit hits the fan, they are backup food for the humans. But that's fine, because I know they would not hesitate to eat us if we all dropped dead on the floor and their food dish ran dry.

[Vince]

To a lot of people pets aren't pets, they're family members. If you lived with an animal that loved you unconditionally, you fed it, you bathed it, it followed you around everywhere, etc. How you can look upon that life as an accessory rather than a part of you, I wouldn't understand.

We don't understand it because we've been completely urbanized. 150 years ago you'd be describing what was on the menu of every Sunday dinner

[Leisher]

To a lot of people pets aren't pets, they're family members. If you lived with an animal that loved you unconditionally, you fed it, you bathed it, it followed you around everywhere, etc. How you can look upon that life as an accessory rather than a part of you, I wouldn't understand.

We don't understand it because we've been completely urbanized. 150 years ago you'd be describing what was on the menu of every Sunday dinner

To be fair, there are times in human history when your neighbors, friends, or family(?) would be dinner.

Happily, we don't live in those times and we're civilized. On top of that, it's proven that you're probably broken upstairs if you're cruel to animals.

So I think it's perfectly acceptable to treat an animal as a loved one. Forcing it on your parents is probably not "cool" though.

[GORDON]

Thing is, when I finally had a kid, I realized how silly it was to say "I have kids with fur." It isn't even in the same sport, much less the same ballpark.

So when you give someone who had actual kids a sticker that says, "My grandkids are dogs," it must seem extra ridiculous to them and possibly extremely disappointing.

[TPRJones]

Thing is, when I finally had a kid, I realized how silly it was to say "I have kids with fur." It isn't even in the same sport, much less the same ballpark.

I hope you won't mind if I don't take you as an impartial judge of the objective truth value of this.

[GORDON]

Why not? Unlike you, I have a lot of experience as both a childless adult, and a parent. I hope you don't mind if I don't take you as someone whose opinion on the subject had any weight at all.

[TPRJones]

Because you've been brainwashed by hormones. Your judgement is clouded beyond recovery by biological impulses which completely bypass and undermine the conscious mind. If someone wearing a brain slug tells you that wearing a brain slug is the most important thing one can do, you wouldn't take their word for it would you?

You are welcome to ignore my opinion, sure, but I should think that's mostly due to the fact that I've failed to express one.

[Vince]

To be fair, there are times in human history when your neighbors, friends, or family(?) would be dinner.

Happily, we don't live in those times and we're civilized. On top of that, it's proven that you're probably broken upstairs if you're cruel to animals.

So I think it's perfectly acceptable to treat an animal as a loved one. Forcing it on your parents is probably not "cool" though.

With all due respect, you're kind of proving my point. I point out that almost everyone raised, fed and cared for animals that almost always eventually became dinner 150 years ago and you seemingly compare it to cannibalism joyfully proclaim that we live in a civilized time. Which we do, but that doesn't change the fact that someone somewhere is still caring for and feeding the animals that end up on our dinner plates. We just are now urbanized and insulated from the work of actually doing that.

I get people feeling like pets are family. You should watch the documentary called Happy People: A Year in the Taiga. An old trapper there was talking about his dogs that helped him with his tracking of fur animals. He explained that he rarely let them into his house, only when the temperatures dropped to about 20 below zero and their lives were endangered. And even then they had to stay by the door. He explained that if they spent too much time in the house they became worthless as working dogs. Then he told the story about how two of his best dogs were killed by a bear that had wandered into their village. This old grizzled guy was tearing up telling the story. Two things became obvious. He really loved his dogs. And they were dogs.

I'm not sure how cruelty to animals entered the conversation about farmers raising their own food.

[GORDON]

Because you've been brainwashed by hormones. Your judgement is clouded beyond recovery by biological impulses which completely bypass and undermine the conscious mind. If someone wearing a brain slug tells you that wearing a brain slug is the most important thing one can do, you wouldn't take their word for it would you?

You are welcome to ignore my opinion, sure, but I should think that's mostly due to the fact that I've failed to express one.

Ah, so because I disagree with you, I am not rational.

There is no way you are going to convince any parent here that you have better perspective on being a parent, compared to a pet owner, than we do.

[GORDON]

Thing is, when I finally had a kid, I realized how silly it was to say "I have kids with fur." It isn't even in the same sport, much less the same ballpark.

I hope you won't mind if I don't take you as an impartial judge of the objective truth value of this.

Is an opinion. You expressed an opinion. A really ridiculously wrong one.

[GORDON]

Oh wait, I get it. I had 2 beers last week, so my mind is altered. That is something I can't argue.

[Malcolm]

I point out that almost everyone raised, fed and cared for animals that almost always eventually became dinner 150 years ago and you seemingly compare it to cannibalism joyfully proclaim that we live in a civilized time. Which we do, but that doesn't change the fact that someone somewhere is still caring for and feeding the animals that end up on our dinner plates.

Most people don't buy their pets to eat. There's a big-ass difference between taking care of something you plan to slaughter later on and something you plan to take care of until the end of its natural life because you want to.

Thing is, when I finally had a kid, I realized how silly it was to say "I have kids with fur." It isn't even in the same sport, much less the same ballpark.

Ask your MiL how much her cat means to her as opposed to her daughter.

[Vince]

Thing is, when I finally had a kid, I realized how silly it was to say "I have kids with fur." It isn't even in the same sport, much less the same ballpark.

I hope you won't mind if I don't take you as an impartial judge of the objective truth value of this.

When we are 20 to 30 and childless, every writer fancies themselves Ernest Hemingway, every lawyer Abraham Lincoln and every businessman Steve Jobs. But there is a reason those titans stand out in history. Because what they achieved is rare. For most people, once they die they will have left little in the way of a significant impact on the world they leave behind. With the exception of parents. Their children will be part of a generation that defines the world in that point in history, for better or for ill.

Most pets die before their owners. And those that don't really haven't made much of a difference to the world.

I'm not saying here that the love a person has for their pet can't be meaningful and important to them. But I've never heard of a couple getting a divorce after their dog died, or somebody committing suicide after their cat became street pizza.

[GORDON]

You're just biased because of your hormones.

[Malcolm]

But I've never heard of a couple getting a divorce after their dog died, or somebody committing suicide after their cat became street pizza.

So you're basing how much you care about something based on how irrationally it makes you act or how attached you are to your genetics?