Ignorance

Post by **thibodeaux** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:51 am

I've noticed that a lot of times when a person holds an opinion that others don't agree with, especially if those others are Right Thinking People, the person with the offending opinion is "ignorant."

Post by **GORDON** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:29 am

Easier to just dismiss peeps with a label than to try to see their point.

Most issues I have thought about have come down to very slight differences of opinion.... but most people don't care to see that.

MY SIDE/YOUR SIDE.

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Post by **TPRJones** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:35 am

Well, since my position is always the most rational, practical, and correct then anyone that holds a different position is either willfully not thinking through the problem properly or incapable of doing so. I try to have some pity for the latter, but have nothing but scorn for the former. Either way - willfully so or not - they are of course being ignorant.

Simple, no?

Or, to put it in a more GORDONesque manner: MY SIDE / EVERYONE ELSE

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Post by **thibodeaux** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:00 am

Apparently the NC legislature is proposing a state constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. Naturally, this is because of "hate and ignorance."

Post by **TheCatt** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:09 am

thibodeaux wrote:Apparently the NC legislature is proposing a state constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. Naturally, this is because of "hate and ignorance."

Well... what else would it be?

Outdated religious convictions? Inability to understand the Bible? Oh wait, that's ignorance again.

People who don't understand the point of a constitution/republic? Oh wait, ignorance again.

Post by **GORDON** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:25 am

Time to post a poll I have been thinking about....

Post by **GORDON** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:35 am

TheCatt wrote:
thibodeaux wrote:Apparently the NC legislature is proposing a state constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. Naturally, this is because of "hate and ignorance."
Well... what else would it be?

Outdated religious convictions? Inability to understand the Bible? Oh wait, that's ignorance again.

People who don't understand the point of a constitution/republic? Oh wait, ignorance again.

I thought the core debate was whether or not is was better for children to be raised by male/female parents, and thus should be encouraged.

Post by **TheCatt** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:51 pm

The core debate seems to be "We're ignorant religious fucks who don't understand things."

But why does the government have to intrude into relationships, families, marriage, etc? Why would a simple majority be able to tell others who they can and cannot marry.

The core debate should be: Does the government have the right to restrict individuals from marrying whom they choose? And the simple answer is No, Hell no.

Post by **GORDON** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:55 pm

Religion seems to be your beef, but my personal opinion is that no one should be recognized by government as "married" until there is a good reason for it to be so. Since the government decided to treat married people differently for tax purposes, that tells me there may have been a reason for it. What was the reason? Serious question, I don't know the answer to that. I suspect, but don't know.

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Post by **thibodeaux** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:56 pm

TheCatt wrote:Outdated religious convictions? Inability to understand the Bible? Oh wait, that's ignorance again.

If your religious conviction is about the structure of the physical universe...like "the sun goes around the Earth," I would concede that could be outdated. But a conviction about human institutions, like "men can't marry men"....that seems pretty timeless. And not based on hate or ignorance.

And what part of the Bible says it IS ok for men to marry men? Because if it does, I'll cop to ignorance on that.

Post by **TheCatt** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:06 pm

thibodeaux wrote:
TheCatt wrote:Outdated religious convictions? Inability to understand the Bible? Oh wait, that's ignorance again.
If your religious conviction is about the structure of the physical universe...like "the sun goes around the Earth," I would concede that could be outdated. But a conviction about human institutions, like "men can't marry men"....that seems pretty timeless. And not based on hate or ignorance.

And what part of the Bible says it IS ok for men to marry men? Because if it does, I'll cop to ignorance on that.

What part of the Bible says it's ok to wear clothes of two different materials? Or grow two different crops? Or sleep with a women who's had her period in the past two weeks?

Outdated.

Post by **TheCatt** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:09 pm

GORDON wrote:Religion seems to be your beef, but my personal opinion is that no one should be recognized by government as "married" until there is a good reason for it to be so. Since the government decided to treat married people differently for tax purposes, that tells me there may have been a reason for it. What was the reason? Serious question, I don't know the answer to that. I suspect, but don't know.

It's not just taxes, it's legal as well, particularly with regards to property, medical issues, etc. So fundamentally, the question is why marriage is a legal concept, since taxes just draws from that, I would assume.

Post by **thibodeaux** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:23 pm

TheCatt wrote:What part of the Bible says it's ok to wear clothes of two different materials? Or grow two different crops? Or sleep with a women who's had her period in the past two weeks?

Outdated.

You didn't answer the question. Instead, you're arguing that people ignore the parts of the Bible they don't like. That's still not ignorance.

Post by **thibodeaux** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:29 pm

Instead of going around and around, let me just assert this:

In (almost) ANY debate of a political issue, there will be people on the other side who are smarter and more educated than you are. Therefore, it is ridiculous to assert their position is based on ignorance.

Post by **TheCatt** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:30 pm

No, I'm saying they are ignorant of the Bible.

Post by **thibodeaux** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:35 pm

TheCatt wrote:No, I'm saying they are ignorant of the Bible.

You have not shown how opposition to gay marriage = ignorant of the Bible. As far as *I* know, opposition to gay marriage doesn't contradict the Bible in any way.

You have pointed out that people are quite willing to ignore Biblical prohibitions when convenient; no argument there. Perhaps you mean that people are ignorant of these prohibitions? Maybe they are, but that doesn't mean their opposition to gay marriage is due to ignorance.

Post by **TheCatt** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:55 pm

I'm saying that they are ignorant of other Biblical issues, not that they are ignoring them. And, given the historical context of all of the prohibitions, and the way they are treated today, they are also ignorant of what the Bible is trying to convey.

Post by **Leisher** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:25 pm

thibodeaux wrote:In (almost) ANY debate of a political issue, there will be people on the other side who are smarter and more educated than you are. Therefore, it is ridiculous to assert their position is based on ignorance.

That statement is slightly vague, but logically sound. However, would you agree that there are also people on the "other side" who are smarter and more educated than someone on this side, but does have a position based on ignorance?

The problem I always have is that those people, on both sides of the argument, seem to be the ones with the loudest voices. (Or that's who the MSM wants us to see/hear.)

I'm saying that they are ignorant of other Biblical issues, not that they are ignoring them. And, given the historical context of all of the prohibitions, and the way they are treated today, they are also ignorant of what the Bible is trying to convey.

I'm not putting myself into this debate, but I can say that just last night my wife listened to a priest rip his fellow Catholics. Apparently some survey was just done and Catholics scored really low in knowledge about their own religion. He stated it was a huge problem, and I've got to agree.

Listen, believe in God or not, but you should kind of know and understand your own beliefs...

Hell, look at Muslims. Some think their religion is based on peace and tolerance and that violence has no place in the world, while other Muslims think the killing of innocents is "Allah's will". They're not both right...

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Post by **thibodeaux** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:27 pm

You keep using that word. Given the number of different religious sects based on the Bible, I don't think you can fairly say that people who believe something different from you are ignorant, just because of that difference.

Post by **TheCatt** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:37 pm

thibodeaux wrote:You keep using that word. Given the number of different religious sects based on the Bible, I don't think you can fairly say that people who believe something different from you are ignorant, just because of that difference.

And I'm not. I'm saying they are ignorant of the Bible, period.