2024 General Election Thread

[GORDON]

But politicians could, if they wanted, pass laws to rein in the corporations. But oh no, lobbying money.

All the blame has to be on leadership. This is why we let them be captain. And the captain is always responsible for the ship.

[GORDON]

Addendum to my previous "what's broken" post:

Education. Free money/aid without cost controls has meant skyrocketing costs of higher education.

In 1990 I was paying about $6k out of pocket for college, and it cost about $6k.

In 2024 My kid is paying out of pocket about $6k, and college costs about $30k. The rest is government aid, scholarships, and loans.

[GORDON]

Dealing with all that bullshit, they get pissed when they have to spend $18 at McDonald's, and then have someone tell them how everything is great.

[Cakedaddy]

I think the politicians do deserve some blame, but not all of it. Let's say 50%. They're the enablers and certainly not fiscally responsible.

Corporations deserve the rest. Their mad race for profits above all has led to this situation. Nobody is willing to back down to make things more affordable because Wall St would be livid.

So. . . no personal accountability? Everyone's problems are someone else's fault?! I think people should bear SOME responsibility for their circumstances!

[TheCatt]

OK, but... how?

I'm torn. I'm with Cake in that personal responsibility matters, but I also agree that people can't control everything in life, and that varies by person for so many reasons.

[Leisher]

I think the politicians do deserve some blame, but not all of it. Let's say 50%. They're the enablers and certainly not fiscally responsible.

Corporations deserve the rest. Their mad race for profits above all has led to this situation. Nobody is willing to back down to make things more affordable because Wall St would be livid.

So. . . no personal accountability? Everyone's problems are someone else's fault?! I think people should bear SOME responsibility for their circumstances!

I do agree that people have to bear some responsibility for their own circumstances. However, we're discussing the macro, not the micro.

I also agree that people can't control everything in life, and that varies by person for so many reasons.

I think the macro affects us and our decisions more than the micro.

Example:
Susie chooses to go to college, not have kids, lives in NYC, and does everything right. She saves, she doesn't splurge, etc. She's barely making enough to afford a one bedroom shithole. The cost of living is simply too high to allow Susie to afford the lifestyle she would have had 20 years ago with all of her decisions being the same.

I guess the best way to interpret what Gordon and I are arguing is the cost of living is outpacing income? Gordon, agree? Because of that, people's choices make little difference or really exacerbate the issue for them (depending on their annual income).

Wall St and the government's decisions affect us far more than our own choices, and more immediately.

[TheCatt]

Why did Susie pick a bad job? Why is her income so limited? Why didn't Susie get married? Why didn't Susie stay home longer? Why didn't she pick somewhere cheaper to live?

Wall St and the government's decisions affect us far more than our own choices, and more immediately.

So what should change?

[Cakedaddy]

I would say LOTS of places aren't the same as they were 20 years ago. Places change. Some get nicer and more expensive. Some get shittier and less expensive. Nothing ever stays the same. I'm sorry, not sorry, the place Suzie wants to live outpaced her life choices?

I'm not saying EVERYTHING is our fault, and nothing is gov/corp fault. I'm just saying people own a percentage of their circumstances.

And I think people as a whole affect the macro just as much as corps/gov. When the entire population makes the same types of mistakes/decisions, that shit adds up. Did me buying a TV with my free money drive the price of TVs up? No. Did the entire country buying TVs with their free money drive the price of TVs up? Yes. A large number of people doing something affects things. If we all boycotted EA, they'd feel it. When I'm alone in my boycott, nothing is felt. Our entire country is made up of fiscally irresponsible people. The individual decisions add up to a huge effect. How different would things be right now if all of the free money was still in people savings?

[GORDON]

OK, but... how?

We have a fairly free market system, but we've never had a fully free market system. We've always had taxes and tariffs and sometimes even price controls. And if we're going to get past this late-stage "actually, we're not going to trickle it down, so suck it non-shareholders" spiral, where people with full time jobs still need to live in the projects and use food stamps (whatever the current system is called), the government needs to get more hands-on with the capitalism controls. What we had worked for a long time and took us far. I don't think it is going to work any more. Productivity changed, technology changed, population changed. It's ok for the rest to change to accommodate and not fuck over half the peeps.

Back in my day a man working at a shoe store could own a house in the Chicago suburbs and support a family with stay-at-home mother.

[TheCatt]

Back in my day a man working at a shoe store could own a house in the Chicago suburbs and support a family with stay-at-home mother.

And don't get me started on what a businessman could achieve in Chicago with his giant family going to Paris for a week over Christmas.

the government needs to get more hands-on with the capitalism controls.

OK, how? In what way?

[GORDON]

I actually edited while you posted.

If I had a couple days in charge, with a staff of people telling me what is and isn't possible... and a creative team of constitutional lawyers to be clever and think around corners.... and a good team of peeps to keep me from getting assassinated.... I could figure it out. Would that I were like 20 people already working at those high levels of government, who clearly aren't interested in solving these problems. Because they have too much to risk losing, by changing the system.

[Leisher]

Why did Susie pick a bad job? Why is her income so limited? Why didn't Susie get married? Why didn't Susie stay home longer? Why didn't she pick somewhere cheaper to live?

You could have shortened that to "Let them eat cake".

In the words of Judge Smails, "The world needs ditchdiggers too." Not everyone gets to be the CEO nor does everyone want to be the CEO.

This reminds me that one of the biggest problems in our society is the horseshit belief that you're a failure if you're not filthy rich. Why do we expect all people to live up to this ridiculous standard. The average IQ is 99-100. That means that at least half of Americans aren't qualified before we even discuss education, experience, opportunity, and other factors. Granted, they could win the lottery, become a star in sports, etc., but again super long odds for that stuff.

Why can't Susie be a teacher in NYC? How is her love life any of your business? (You're so nosey and judgmental. Women aren't property Catt!) Does NYC not need teachers?

I'm just saying people own a percentage of their circumstances.

I think we're all on the same page there.

Our entire country is made up of fiscally irresponsible people.

We should have some sort of public education system that can teach them not to be fiscally irresponsible.

[GORDON]

We should have some sort of public education system that can teach them not to be fiscally irresponsible.

We have social promotion instead of that.

[Cakedaddy]

We should have some sort of public education system that can teach them not to be fiscally irresponsible.

If they don't learn after the 17th year (or hell, 5th generation) of struggle due to living beyond their means, not making better choices, there's nothing a high school could have done.

[GORDON]

When I hear people say "those crazy assholes want to get rid of the department of education!!!" I just sort of nod and agree.... But to be honest, I don't know what wonderful system they're trying to protect. Does anyone think schools have gotten better at teaching kids since 1979 when it was created?

[GORDON]

Was at a bar last night. The group of liberal women I was with, most of whom I don't know well, were fretting over the upcoming stripping of women's rights.

I was helpful and suggested that if they don't yet have their Handmaiden Tale robes they would be supplied by the government, and if they could they should try to get into MY stable because I will be a generous and benevolent master.

[GORDON]

Migrants waiting at border trying to get in:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/migrants-mex ... win-report

"If Harris had won, people would be jumping for joy and as you can see right now, they look sad, they are feeling down," Silva tells The Telegraph.

The migrants have been waiting for months to see if they can get an appointment to legally claim asylum via the app. If their appointment does not come in time, they say they will be forced to attempt to cross the border illegally, risking deportation or being preyed on by the cartels.

[Troy]

Onboard to let it all happen, the people voted, but uh... from an economic perspective this seems like breaking up with your girlfriend on the one night of the year you aren't horny. We have like 4% unemployment, who is going to do this work - the "dirty jobs" of the US?

[TheCatt]

Onboard to let it all happen, the people voted, but uh... from an economic perspective this seems like breaking up with your girlfriend on the one night of the year you aren't horny. We have like 4% unemployment, who is going to do this work - the "dirty jobs" of the US.

Trump supporters, I assume.

[Leisher]

We have like 4% unemployment, who is going to do this work - the "dirty jobs" of the US?

You're talking about migrant workers. That's not who people are bitching about. Yeah, people have bitched about them previously...ask South Park...but generally speaking that kind of complaint doesn't exist anymore.

Doing things the legal way and assimilation are the cores of the argument these days. Well, it was until Biden/Harris let millions over the border.

Those millions of unemployed "asylum seekers" filling luxury hotels in NY, detention centers in Texas, taking over apartment complexes in Denver, etc. who are committing crimes and being rewarded with better benefits than U.S. citizens, particularly U.S. citizens who lost everything in a natural disaster, Trump sign or not.

That's what has people pissed and rightly so.