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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:28 am
by Leisher
If you've never seen the show, get out of this thread now and go rent Season 1. Watch episode 1 and if you don't like it, then feel free to ruin the show by reading further.
I've said all along that somehow, Vic Mackey is going to walk away from all of this, but I'm no longer certain.
He's in a world of shit right now, but I can see the exits:
-Claudette and Dutch are the only cops who know about the investigation, right? Well, Claudette has lupus and Dutch is currently mixed up with a potential serial killer. I could absolutely see a situation where they get everything they need to take down Vic only to have their own personal demons kill them. Both seem very likely too as both situations have been built up this year, but with 3 episodes to go, both are still unresolved.
-Mara didn't buy Claudette's speech so now Shane has a huge advantage. The irony of this is that he now could put Vic in a situation to be taken down or he can save Vic. In the past, I could see Shane setting things up so that he saves Vic once again hoping that evens their score allowing him and Mara to walk away. However, now I think Shane might want Vic dead or behind bars.
-Remember that Claudette told Dutch that she thinks Corine wouldn't testify against Vic. Corine is also stressing that Vic and the children cannot know it was her who set him up. Well, I think I picked up on something with Corine during the last episode. When Claudette jumped on the phone she said "The only thing I'm interested in is seeing Vic Mackey behind bars." The camera then showed Corina and she didn't look happy with that statement. I think Corine might be looking at Claudette as someone who isn't interested in protecting her from Vic, but instead someone who wants to get Vic by any means necessary. I think it's very likely that she'll compromise the sting against Vic.
-I've seen it said on a different forum, and I think it bears repeating, at the end of all this, Billings will be the captain again. If Claudette dies or is incapacitated and Dutch is murdered, I could absolutely see that happening.
The true wild card in my eyes is ICE and Aceveda. I could see a scenario where Vic does get busted, but the feds decide to pull him out of jail as he's proven he's a very capable and resourceful man, and thus, could be a valuable field agent against cartels and gangs.
Keep in mind that Vic now has Olivia's file from the cartel's leverage box. Also, never forget that Terry was a fed...
3 episodes left and there's more interesting clue in their descriptions and titles:
-Tonight's episode is Petty Cash and I think it'll deal a lot with Vic and Ronnie digging up 100K for Shane while Claudette and Dutch try to raid that meeting. Not to mention Corinne's involvement in this whole situation.
-Next week's episode has no title and no description. I think this might be where the biggest stuff goes down. This could be the penultimate chapter of The Shield.
-Family Meeting is the last episode and that title alone is interesting. Lem is dead, Shane is on the run, Corinne is working with the police, Danni ran off with the baby, Vic and Ronnie could be in police custody by now, etc. So who is the "family"? The title seems to indicate that someone is left. So someone has to walk away clean...perhaps more than one.
On top of that is the interesting episode description which discusses a rape victim and some Mexican gangsters. Don't you think that's odd? The final episode of the final season with every episode prior focusing on Vic's spiral and not even remotely on street crime, yet here we are back to something that seems like it could be from any other episode in any other season.
I take from that one of two possibilities:
-Vic, Ronnie, Shane, or whomever is back on the streets in some capacity and have survived everything else intact (not saying they won't be shot on the job...I'll come back to this in a minute).
-There's a new strike team of sorts and we see a "new Vic Mackey" be created in the finale.
The last thing I want to say about this is that I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility for Vic to survive the rest of the shit, get his badge back via ICE or Aceceda, and then die in the line of duty, which would be his perfect ending.
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:38 pm
by Malcolm
Shitload of good points there. The superb writing has left many possible avenues for wrapping this shyte up.
Just cos Claudette & Dutch are the only ones w\ hard evidence on Vic don't mean they're the only ones that want him gone; they're just the only ones w\ a strict enough morality & the balls to take him out. That being said, morality has not been rewarded on this show. Having Vic ultimately get toppled by those two would be weak.
Mara's ratting out Corrine (& her involvement w\ the cops) to Shane actually caught me off-guard. I thought she'd cave considering the episode just showed earlier how her mother was a bitch. Yeah, Shane's got a big time advantage now. It wouldn't shock me if Mara tries to put him up to something to get Vic but he chokes. He already fucked up trying to kill him once. His woman's more ruthless than he'll ever be.
From what I've seen Corrine will stand by Vic till the end, despite whatever she said. She knew about all this shit when he was a cop. She just knew better than to ask details. Vic's still her kids' father, despite being an absolute bastard.
If Billings ends up being captain, there'll be a power vacuum, unless Dutch & Claudette going down somehow inspire him (that'd be somewhat lame). In that case, I wouldn't put it past the writers to throw in Vic 2.0.
My bet is that Ronnie walks away from all this. He's consistently been the calmest, most professional team member. The only thing that might get him is the obsession w\ getting Shane. I could see his killing Shane paralleling Vic's killing of Terry. Hey, Shane killed Lem; members of the Strike Team been killing each other since episode one. If Ronnie caps Shane & gets away, I predict he'll be Vic 2.0. His real test would be finishing Mara.
Aceveda, the character I love to hate, something tells me he'll end up keeping alive, but his ambitions have always tended to outstrip his abilities unless he gets some outside help. His fucking over Mackey would certainly have some poetry to it.
The feds could bust Vic, could save him. Truth be told, though, I think Vic's got a death sentence on him. The way they were advertising this season beforehand, the way shit's been going, he's got to catch a bullet somewhere, from someone. Not sure who yet, though. Plenty of folk it could be.
Edited By Malcolm on 1226443255
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:20 pm
by Malcolm
Alright, so thru some amazing balls Vic now has cash (that might come back to haunt him) and Shane's scraping rock bottom. They got a real Bonnie & Clyde + kid thing going. Ronnie's now also got hard, concrete evidence against him (unless Claudette & Dutch get fucked). There could be a real Mexican stand-off, Reservoir Dogs-type ending to this. Bad federal takedown getting a shitload of people killed due to a cartel setup?
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:23 pm
by Leisher
The cash that Vic got should be fine. Remember, he's the go between with the drug suppliers and sellers. Thus, they won't ask each other about whether it was 100K or 200K.
The problem with the money in an unrealistic sense is that Corrine still had it after the attempted sting. The cops would've taken it as it is evidence. They might have Ronnie delivering a bag, but if they prove what's inside...
I think they're doing a great job of making the viewer think Corrine will eventually screw the police's case against Vic.
I still don't know what Vic's fate will be, but I do know that Ryan said he was editing episode 3 or 4 (not sure if he meant season) and he figured it out then. Everything we're seeing is a build up to that.
Ronnie's "He taught me everything I know" line about Vic was either a red herring or foreshadowing.
Did you see Claudette crying in the trailer for next week? It appeared like she was at a crime scene...
Did you know they actually shoot this show on the streets of LA with minimal security? Go to the fxnetwork.com website and check out the Shield videos. The cast roundtable stuff is pretty cool. It's a testament to the acting on the show when it's actually a relief to see these people laughing with one another.
Some interesting things:
-Shane and Lem are best friends in real life.
-Lem originally tried out for the role of Terry Crowley.
-Shane and Lem did not exist in the original script. (that is amazing to me.)
-Corrine is Shawn Ryan's wife and friends with Michael Chiklis' wife.
-Cassidy is really Vic's daughter.
-Ronnie is a real life friend of Ryan's and accepted the role of Ronnie for no pay.
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:45 pm
by Malcolm
The cash that Vic got should be fine. Remember, he's the go between with the drug suppliers and sellers. Thus, they won't ask each other about whether it was 100K or 200K.
Long as the cartel & gangs never meet & chat, I suppose he's fine. I could see some situation where someone'd spout off, "We paid you 200K for the privilege of selling this shit?"
Ronnie's "He taught me everything I know" line about Vic was either a red herring or foreshadowing.
Might it come down to Vic & Ronnie taking down Shane, Vic trying to ice Mara, & then Ronnie turning on him (as he did on Terry)? We're fairly certain Ronnie's got reservations about killing her, especially if it's got to be in front of her kid.
Did you see Claudette crying in the trailer for next week? It appeared like she was at a crime scene...
I never watch the previews for next week. It colours my conclusions when I think about things later.
I still say Vic & Shane die for sure at some point. That's about the only things I can read at the moment.
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:43 am
by Malcolm
Holy fuck. Vic's ploy w\ ICE worked. Course, they all hate him now that they heard his shit on tape. The sequence was fucking beautiful.
Holy fuck. Vic sold out Ronnie due to Dutch's bluff. That means Ronnie's burned, period. Could make for an interesting Vic v. Ronnie showdown.
Don't be surprised if Shane, Ronnie, Vic, (hell, maybe even Tevan) meet in the end.
There's something really fucked up about the phone calls Dutch got from the kid or his mother. Think the kid might actually kill Dutch? & Claudette had some kinda fucking attack when she found out about Vic's deal. Rawlings got cashiered for political reasons; that sort of shit can't be good for PR if it happens at the wrong time. Is it possible that Claudette'll do something to screw the drug bust or try to grab Mackey anyhow?
Aceveda might end up walking away from this, but his favour w\ ICE is dead after he backed Vic so he's got no insurance if shit goes south for him in some major way.
Then there's the drug bust. Hell, that could end up being fatal.
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:10 am
by Leisher
When Vic signed the dotted line, I immediately thought to myself "He's going to die in the final episode." I just don't see a scenario where Vic gets to walk away while Shane and Ronnie go to jail...unless they end the series showing Vic with a crew of feds representing his new "Lem", "Ronnie", and "Shane".
One thing I don't like and I don't think Shawn Ryan though through is the fact that Vic doesn't need to be involved in anything from this point forward except the drug deal. He's headed there now, so if the raid occurs, Vic is no longer a player in the series due to his deal. He has nothing left on the table except for a loyalty to Ronnie. Although, that loyalty roping him in and then getting him killed by Ronnie would prove I was right about foreshadowing on Ronnie's "Vic taught me everything I know" comment.
Actually, I also didn't like the Dutch bluff working so well on Vic. Vic is portrayed as being so smart and was able to spot the setup, but how could he not be smart enough to realize why the undercover cops didn't make an arrest until after he told Corrine about the setup? That REALLY bugs me because that's the plot device that drove him to throw Ronnie under the bus.
The preview for next week showed Ronnie in a small room with a gun drawn facing off camera left and there were two people in there with him, a man and woman, but I couldn't tell if it was Vic and Corrine or Shane and Mara.
Yes, I still think the kid is going to kill Dutch.
I have idea what Lupus actually does, but that's what is affecting Claudette. The funny part about that is if it affects her mentally, which is obviously does, any conviction she's a part of could be overturned due to that. Especially if the case was lead by her, which is the case with the strike team.
I like your idea about Claudette busting up the drug deal to try and screw Vic's deal, but how would she know his immunity hinges on that deal? I found it pretty ridiculous that she was even in that room listening to Vic in the first place.
On that note, the cops I know who have watched this show since the beginning have been pretty disappointed about how a show that was very realistic in season 1 has become very unrealistic in season 7. They still enjoy it, but the storyline is very much "Hollywood".
I don't think Aceveda loses brownie points for backing Vic because Vic stated in testimony that Aceveda knew Vic killed Terry, but couldn't prove it. I think Aceveda is going to win his election.
Don't be fooled by the feds' disdain for Vic's testimony. In reality the feds give immunity to people far worse than Vic without batting an eye. A guy who killed one cop and a bunch of criminals walking free to lock up a shit ton of folks from a major drug cartel who are responsible for a ton of innocent people's deaths is win-win to them.
Plus, any fed could take one look at Vic's body of work and realize that he'd be one hell of a field agent. They'd just have to make sure he doesn't try to pull off another money train sort of deal.
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:16 pm
by Malcolm
Leisher wrote:Plus, any fed could take one look at Vic's body of work and realize that he'd be one hell of a field agent. They'd just have to make sure he doesn't try to pull off another money train sort of deal.
The only guarantee the feds have from Vic is that immunity. Didn't he give the feds 3 years in exchange for that?
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:39 pm
by Leisher
He is their employee for 3 years. He has medical, dental, and an annual salary of $62000. He also gets immunity for any crimes he committed prior to signing that deal as long as he confessed to them during that interview.
Olivia said that the immunity only takes place IF they bust Beltran. I'm not sure that's how it works in real life.
I also doubt Vic would put all his cards on the table to the feds if the immunity wasn't a done deal.
Anyway, he is NOT immune from any crimes he commits from this point forward.
Earlier I forgot to mention that I think somehow the "not looking out for your partner" is going to cost Dutch. That Billings situation is not being thrown in there for shit and giggles.
So in the 90 minute finale, they have to wrap up:
-If Vic finds out about Corrine's betrayal.
-Ronnie's fate
-Shane and Mara's fate
-Vic's fate
-Billings' suit against the department
-Dutch-Lloyd situation
-Claudette's Lupus
-ICE's Beltran bust
-Aceveda's mayoral campaign
-Possibly...the fate of Jullian, Tina, Danni and her (Vic's) kid.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:13 pm
by Leisher
Tonight is the finale. 90 minutes. This has the potential to be the best series finale in TV history.
The creator has promised that there won't be any Sopranos "fade to black" bullshit.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:18 pm
by Malcolm
Sucks ass I gotta be at work when this airs. Ah well, DVR.
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:55 am
by Malcolm
Just finished watching. Lots of weird shit that I suppose kinda resolves things. But left assloads of strings untied.
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:08 pm
by Malcolm
So, Dutch & Claudette appear to nail the kid. Ronnie's in jail, Vic was stuck working a desk job, Shane goes Jonestown on his family, & Vic's family bolts. Shit, & Ronnie's probably going to jail in Mitchell's little kingdom there, so he'll catch a shiv somewhere.
Overall, I was somewhat disappointed w\ the ending. Saw the director's name in the credits. He cut his directing teeth on another cop show back in the day. Towards the end, they let regulars direct a few episodes. His always seemed to have wanna-be Spike Lee aspirations. That assclown from the New Paradigm Party is my case in point.
Vic gets stuck doing paperwork for 3 years? While I see that's a living hell for him w\o his buddies or family around, the feds just paid for this dude in advance & now their going to let him rot in an office?
Seeing him break down that way, I dunno, but to quote Shakespeare, "Ambition should be made of sterner stuff."
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:10 pm
by Leisher
Nah, cops who go to jail are usually sent to federal pens and kept seperate from the general population.
The realistic merit of the show was going downhill since Season 1, but the finale didn't help, particularly with how certain things were "forced". For example: it's iffy that Vic's testimony could've been used against Ronnie in the way that it was. Certainly, Dutch and Claudette would NOT have been allowed to be in that room or even see what Vic testified to...
I think the ending didn't show Vic accepting his fate, but the exact opposite. We see him going through the motions, pulling out the pictures, then breakdown a bit. Then he grabs his gun (which he isn't supposed to have), doesn't off himself, and gets this look on his face that he knows what he's going to do before he marches off the set. I think they were trying to imply that Vic figured out a new gameplan and was heading off to carry it out.
Another person I know that watches the show thought it was a perfect setup for a new series focusing on Vic in ICE. I thought it was a good setup for a movie.
Lots of loose ends:
-Did Jullian accept his new life as a straight man or did he want to be gay again?
-Did David win the election?
-How is Ronnie doing in prison, and is Vic now working on getting him out?
-Will Vic track down Corrine, you know that's going to be priority #1 when his 3 years are up. The bigger question is does he punish her?
-When will Claudette die?
-Was Rita dead?
-One of the biggest problems I had though is Danni. She ran off in the middle of the night with Vic's bastard. Why was that not addressed, particularly when the last few episodes have gone so far to show that in the end Vic's kids were his primary concern in life. Now Danni is back and Vic makes no move to see his kid? She can't stop him now and, in fact, could look bad in court since she ran away with the kid once already.
-I also didn't like how Vic walked out silently after Claudette toyed with him. Vic from seasons prior would've told her that he'll enjoy reading her obit while breathing free air. That would've pissed her off immensely.
It's my opinion that we're going to see a The Shield movie set 3 years later.
If they do decide to do a Vic in ICE show, I truly hope they focus on him now being a cop who just also happens to want his best friend out of jail and to find his family that's in witness protection.
Still, The Shield remained the best series I've seen in years, if not ever.
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:22 pm
by Malcolm
As I said, way too much shit left unanswered. If that was intended to be the last word on the show, then I've gotta go w\ Vic offing himself. The feds that hired him were visibly exceedingly pissed about his immunity deal (which shocks the fuck outta me, them being feds & all). Yeah, if there's a spin-off or a flick in the works, I could see this as a segue.
But if Shawn Ryan really wanted to close the door (first off, he did a shitty job), I can only extrapolate the most likely shit from what I saw.
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:28 pm
by Leisher
I would've been really pissed if Vic had killed himself. It's just not that character.
I'm telling you, watch it again, the final message was Vic grabbing his gun, getting up to leave, and having his "bad ass" mode turned on. Vic wasn't giving up, he was headed out to start playing the game again.
As for Shawn's writing here, outside of Vic, I agree with you, he left way too many dangling threads, which is why I suspect a movie or new series.