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Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:00 pm**

http://www.nytimes.com/2015....ml?_r=1

And if you don't get the title of the thread...I'm sure Google will help you out.

That Woman gets a lot of hate, but she understood what happens when things are taken to their necessary conclusions.

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:08 pm**

Been reading a lot of discussion about the new $15 minimum wages they are setting out west. Some peeps say FINALLY A LIVING WAGE and others are saying "Yeah, and the price of everything is going to go up both because of the increased cost of labor and because things get priced at what people will pay, not what they are worth, and when people make more money they are willing to pay more."

So, yeah, our economy isn't based on what shit is worth. Things are produced, sold, and priced at what people are going to pay for them, and the baseline of that thinking is the minimum wage. When the MW is $7, things marketed at the poor are going to be priced at those who make $7. When the MW is $15, things marketed to the poor are going to be priced for those who make $15. MW = the baseline for being poor. Increasing the MW just ups the level at who is considered poor, it isn't going to change any lives.

Move over, Adam Smith.

Edited By GORDON on 1438535375

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:58 pm**

I disagree, Gordon. There is a large world out there of people making about $1/hour, who are making good consumed by people in the US who make MW. While some prices will rise due to the impact of $15 MW, the purchasing power of people making that $ will still rise.

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:14 pm**

Yeah but what does the price of stuff in the US have to do with the guy overseas making $1 a day? He isn't the target market for buying this stuff in Seattle. Poor people in Seattle can now afford to pay twice as much for the loosey cigarette, so you think the guy isn't going to charge that before he gets killed?

Edited By GORDON on 1438550243

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:35 pm**

GORDON wrote:Yeah but what does the price of stuff in the US have to do with the guy overseas making $1 a day? He isn't the target market for buying this stuff in Seattle. Poor people in Seattle can now afford to pay twice as much for the loosey cigarette, so you think the guy isn't going to charge that before he gets killed?

What % of the stuff the guy in Seattle buys do you think is made in Seattle versus the place overseas where the $1/day guy lives?

That person will upgrade some choices, some prices will rise, but overall, that person will have more financial freedom than they do today.

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:30 pm**

I still have no idea what the guy overseas has to do with anything. People selling the overseas crap in America are going to raise prices to what people are willing to pay no matter how much it cost to produce.

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:51 pm**

GORDON wrote:I still have no idea what the guy overseas has to do with anything. People selling the overseas crap in America are going to raise prices to what people are willing to pay no matter how much it cost to produce.

Yeah, that's not how that works.

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:57 pm**

Ah, I thought it was all about what the market will bear.

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:16 pm**

GORDON wrote:Ah, I thought it was all about what the market will bear.

Depends on the level of competition within the market, substitute goods, elasticity of demand, etc.

Posted: **Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:10 am**

TheCatt wrote:
GORDON wrote:Ah, I thought it was all about what the market will bear.
Depends on the level of competition within the market, substitute goods, elasticity of demand, etc.

So...what the market will bear?

Posted: **Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:33 am**

Leisher wrote:
TheCatt wrote:
GORDON wrote:Ah, I thought it was all about what the market will bear.
Depends on the level of competition within the market, substitute goods, elasticity of demand, etc.
So...what the market will bear?

People selling the overseas crap in America are going to raise prices to what people are willing to pay no matter how much it cost to produce.

This was the original argument.

Posted: **Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:55 am**

TheCatt wrote:
Leisher wrote:
TheCatt wrote: Depends on the level of competition within the market, substitute goods, elasticity of demand, etc.
So...what the market will bear?

People selling the overseas crap in America are going to raise prices to what people are willing to pay no matter how much it cost to produce.
This was the original argument.

I still had to go back to Gordo's original comment to figure out how what you two were saying was different.

I agree with you, but Gordo's point isn't entirely wrong.

The minimum wage isn't the issue. That's not the end all be all issue that's hurting American workers.

Posted: **Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:02 pm**

TheCatt wrote:
Leisher wrote:
TheCatt wrote: Depends on the level of competition within the market, substitute goods, elasticity of demand, etc.
So...what the market will bear?

People selling the overseas crap in America are going to raise prices to what people are willing to pay no matter how much it cost to produce.
This was the original argument.

I meant to say that the retail people in America selling the crap they bought for 5 cents made by the guy in China who makes a dollar a day.... that American retail guy is going to set the price wherever people can afford it. My original phrasing may have been ambiguous. Slaves make iPhones in China for $160/per and Apple sells them for $500, because that's a price point the cultists will pay. That situation.

I'm saying the baseline for "poor" is always going to be the minimum wage.

Although, how much is welfare/food stamps/etc? Would $15/hour/40 hour week going to beat that, yet?

Posted: **Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:49 pm**

Interesting thing about this minimum wage jump is that it does get people past the gulf where effective marginal tax rates are quite high due to welfare phase outs

Posted: **Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:51 pm**

Fucking Christ. 95%?

Posted: **Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:29 pm**

Malcolm wrote:Fucking Christ. 95%?

I think you know already, but "marginal tax rate" is a misleading term here, as it encompasses factors like food, housing, and utilities -- the costs of which are negligible on welfare programs but strikingly expensive for the working poor.

I earned about $11000/yr in my first job after college, and can confirm that I had barely saved anything after two years despite spending next to nothing on luxuries.

Posted: **Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:59 pm**

Alhazad wrote:I think you know already, but "marginal tax rate" is a misleading term here, as it encompasses factors like food, housing, and utilities -- the costs of which are negligible on welfare programs but strikingly expensive for the working poor.

It's true enough of a term. It's the loss of EITC, welfare benefits, etc as a result of income earned.

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