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Ending bloodshed is fine, as long as russia keeps being economically sanctioned while holding Ukrainian territory.

All I see in the MSM and a lot of SM is "Trump and Zelensky get in shouting match", "EU will carry the torch with US backing out", "NATO invoking article 5 meaning the US will have to get involved", "Zelensky is the new leader of the free world", and so much more uninformed and spun bullshit. Not to mention all the asshats on the other side who want to completely walk away from the situation.

-People forget the U.S. stuck their nose where it didn't belong years ago by helping to remove a democratically elected leader of Ukraine because he was pro-Russian. We probably wouldn't be here now if that didn't happen.
-Putin, without question, started this war illegally. He's a dictator, murderer, and likely has a teeny peeny. He is not the hero in this story.
-Zelensky, the "leader of the free world", has consolidated Ukraine's TV outlets and dissolved rival political parties (NPR). Don't hold the lack of elections against him though, as their constitution halts elections during war, but Newsweek points out many other things he's doing that are very "dictator-like".
-Many, many, many pundits and SM people condemn JD and Trump for the 2 minute clip spread on SM. However, the 50 minute clips of the entire meeting paints a very different picture. Konstantine Kisin initially bashed JD and Trump, but then followed up after watching the whole 50 minutes. His tweet is below. Kaizen Asiedu has a very logical take and criticizes all involved, but also points out why they act the way they act, and what their ultimate goals are and how the actions of the other do not achieve them. Again, below.
-Zelensky knows he's not winning this war and his access to unlimited funds just got cut off by Trump. That's got to be pretty frustrating. Trump's not wrong that the unlimited funds have to stop because it's unsustainable, particularly coming from what is essentially a broke country. We ain't rich, bitch.
-FYI, within 24 hours, Ukraine's parliament had members on their floor calling for impeachment hearings against Zelensky. Didn't see that covered a ton in our MSM did you?
-Another thing I saw covered, but not very extensively is that Trump did extend Obama's executive order about assisting Ukraine against Russian aggression (or however it's worded).
-FYI, NATO article 5 does not trigger if NATO members gets shot at in Ukraine by Russia because Ukraine is not a NATO member.
-FYI, the U.S. did NOT trigger article 5 post-9/11. European NATO members did.
-I think Trump has been an asshole by cutting Ukraine out of negotiations so far.
-I'm not 100% against Trump's asking for Ukrainian resources in lieu of repayments we all know will never come.
-Hey remember when Iraq was Bush's war and it was shameful that people died "for nothing" and so on and so forth? Biden funded this war in Ukraine for 3 years and never tried finding a peaceful solution. Our MSM has now taken to painting Trump as "Putin's Bitch" because he dares suggest peace talks. What the actual fuck do they expect? The U.S. to send troops to Ukraine? The U.S. to send trillions of dollars we don't have until Ukraine marches on Moscow? How many more people need to die before our MSM can get behind the concept of peace talks? When did ending needless death and destruction become a bad thing?
-Despite what all the super educated military experts on TikTok claim, this war will not be won by Ukraine. They don't have the manpower, and they will eventually run out of money. The U.S. has supplied them with the lion's share so far, and Europe is pledging them a pittance in comparison. This is really a proxy war of Ukraine with the U.S.' money and some EU change vs Russia with China's backing. Guess which countries are run by dictators and can continue on indefinitely, and which ones hold actual elections and have to answer to the people, and thus, don't have unlimited funds. Russia and China are nuclear powers. This isn't Iraq invading Kuwait. This is nuclear armed madman invading his neighbor with the support of his other neighbor that is also a dick and nuclear armed. Zelensky constantly fighting against peace negotiations is not him being a good leader or acting in the best interests of his people. This will be a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people, but Trump is right in suggesting actually talking to Putin is the only way to end this war. Ukraine might have to concede some land, but Russia is going to have to make some big concessions too. That's how these types of things work.

I probably hold a more unique viewpoint in that this was a breath of fresh air in the world of politics. Seeing politicians gladhand and smile while innocents suffer and die has never done anyone any favors. I liked Zelensky's follow up take that he doesn't owe an apology and both sides looked bad. To be fair, Zelensky probably does owe an apology for his behavior, but so does Trump with his "big brothering" of Ukraine so far. This hostile meeting actually lends itself to better and quicker meetings than any gladhanding session. This was real emotion and it's good to see. People can claim "shame" and whatever else all they want, but people who aren't on edge when people are dying are able to do so because they don't care.

I'm very curious to see what Trump plans to demand from Russia in exchange for allowing them to keep some of the land they want. NATO membership for Ukraine? Russia helping to foot the bill for rebuilding Ukraine?

That didn't take long. Like I said in my previous post, sometimes real emotions have to enter discussions to reach a better conclusion. This cannot be welcome news in Moscow, particularly with the amped up commitments from the EU. Maybe we'll finally get peace there?

President Donald Trump on Friday threatened new sanctions on Russia, including on its banking sector, in response to Moscow’s continued bombardment of Ukraine — a significant warning as he seeks to end the conflict.

The new threat was notable after weeks of conciliatory statements toward Russia and its President Vladimir Putin, including saying he was open to lifting sanctions.

Now, Trump says he could slap new, tougher sanctions on Russia in his bid to end the war.

“Based on the fact that Russia is absolutely “pounding” Ukraine on the battlefield right now, I am strongly considering large scale Banking Sanctions, Sanctions, and Tariffs on Russia until a Cease Fire and FINAL SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT ON PEACE IS REACHED,” Trump wrote on Truth Social.

“To Russia and Ukraine, get to the table right now, before it is too late. Thank you!!!” he went on.

Some days I wonder what's going on inside that brain.

There was some world financial forum event (I think that's what was on the wall. Light blue and white background) recently and I saw an Arab guy on stage discussing Trump. He said he's followed Trump for decades and that basically Trump goes really grand on his threats because he's just trying to get people to the table to negotiate. He then said, it's the way he goes about it that turns people off.

Honestly, it makes sense. I think Trump at a poker table would be a guy who throws around chips like crazy to try and scare people off pots.

Those folks have no brakes, it's all gas all the time.

Ukraine agrees to 30 day cease fire. Will Russia?

As part of the plan, the United States immediately lifted its pause on sharing intelligence with Ukraine, and will resume security assistance to that country.
U.S. President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy agreed to conclude “as soon as possible a comprehensive agreement for developing Ukraine’s critical mineral resources,” officials said.

I fucking hope so.

I think Putin is up for ending the war, but he has to save face or get something out of it. A dictator cannot just lose and show weakness. Ask Saddam or Khadafi.

What can they offer him to end the war?

Leisher wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 2:51 pm What can they offer him to end the war?

Land. No NATO.

TheCatt wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 2:56 pm

Leisher wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 2:51 pm What can they offer him to end the war?

Land. No NATO.

What's the land for? He doesn't need farm land, does he? Wasn't this about some strip of land from Russia to ____? If it's about farming, no land, but let's get a deal done whether Russia gets Ukrainian wheat for X # of years as lowest market price. However, Russia also has to pay something to help rebuild Ukraine. If it's just access, then give Russia permission to build a 4 lane highway from them to where ever. They can have exclusive use of that, but must provide bridges or underpasses for Ukrainians.

As for NATO, we won't let Ukraine join, but we will sign a pact with them against further Russian aggression.

He doesn't get everything, but neither does Ukraine. Compromises should hurt and benefit both parties.

Leisher wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:07 pm ? Wasn't this about some strip of land from Russia to ____?

Crimea?

I assume it's "We were big empire, we need to be bigger empire!"

Leisher wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:07 pm As for NATO, we won't let Ukraine join, but we will sign a pact with them against further Russian aggression.

That worked so well the first time around.

TheCatt wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:10 pm I assume it's "We were big empire, we need to be bigger empire!"

No, there was something else. I remember reading about it on CNN or something when this all started. It involved Crimea, but was actually about direct Russian access to...I forget.

TheCatt wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:10 pm

Leisher wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:07 pm As for NATO, we won't let Ukraine join, but we will sign a pact with them against further Russian aggression.

That worked so well the first time around.

Fair, but maybe this time say that US and EU troops will get involved.

Or just build a U.S. or NATO base in Eastern Ukraine.

It'd be kind of funny watching Russia invade again, except intentionally avoiding one plot of land.

TheCatt wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:10 pm

Leisher wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:07 pm ? Wasn't this about some strip of land from Russia to ____?

Crimea?

I assume it's "We were big empire, we need to be bigger empire!"

they don't even need crimean deep water ports any more, they lost their black sea navy. Heyo.

Leisher wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:14 pm

TheCatt wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:10 pm I assume it's "We were big empire, we need to be bigger empire!"

No, there was something else. I remember reading about it on CNN or something when this all started. It involved Crimea, but was actually about direct Russian access to...I forget.

It was the Crimean fresh water supply, which ran through what is now the area Russia occupies to the east of Kherson. Ukraine had shut it off. A canal or something.

Thank you Troy.

Ok, that actually makes this easier. Ukraine gets ALL of their land back. Russia gets access to that water at some low rate.

Just a start, you still have to put in repayment clauses and protections from further aggression, but there's ground to find a deal.

Does anyone know if it was true about the early weeks, young Ukrainian children being shipped into Russia to be adopted out?

Or was that pure propaganda?

No idea, but financially it makes sense. Lots of money in adoption.

GORDON wrote: Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:21 pm Does anyone know if it was true about the early weeks, young Ukrainian children being shipped into Russia to be adopted out?

Or was that pure propaganda?

Na - that all happened. Some of the children escaped through Belarus and have given interviews.