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Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:00 pm
by Alhazad
Chernobyl.
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:01 pm
by GORDON
Alhazad wrote:Chernobyl.
I submit you'd get rained on, frozen, insected, wolfed, and rotted.
If you are inside the casket then just rotted.
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:03 pm
by Alhazad
Acid spring.
Dead sea.
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:08 pm
by GORDON
Alhazad wrote:Acid spring.
Dead sea.
Acid burned and dehydrated, respectively.
I can't remember what the actual acid ph level is, though.... I've watched enough Westerns to know alkaline springs'll kill you, though.
So yeah, my point is that I don't think there's a climate on Earth that is conducive to long life, without shelter.
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:11 pm
by Alhazad
Open-air gun store.
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:03 am
by TPRJones
The fact that we are here as a species when once upon a time we couldn't build shelter is proof that there are climates where shelter isn't absolutely necessary to survival.
Comfort, yes. But not survival.
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:04 am
by GORDON
We also had fur.
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:06 am
by Malcolm
TPRJones wrote:The fact that we are here as a species when once upon a time we couldn't build shelter is proof that there are climates where shelter isn't absolutely necessary to survival.
Comfort, yes. But not survival.
Build? Fuck build. We had caves.
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:09 am
by Alhazad
GORDON wrote:We also had fur.
We still do, but I think your timeline is a bit confused. Proto-humans are plausibly believed to have lost body hair before radiating out of Africa, 1.2 million years ago. The earliest discovered, identifiable hearths are about 800,000 years old.
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:26 pm
by GORDON
Maynard Keened knows the difference between wants and needs without having to have it explained to him:
http://www.rollingstone.com/music....?page=2
"The Remedy" really is a borderline-extinction-level event where we're worrying about food, clothing and shelter rather than worrying about whether or not you should use the word "retard" [laughs]. We're so far away from the reality of what it means to survive, and buying into the polarized crap that goes on in the political arena, and also caught up in what you think you deserve. "I deserve free shipping!" You know? It's just so disconnected with real life, and what it takes to survive. And maybe because I grew up on a farm, and maybe because I've done that work and maybe because I live in Arizona, where everything will kill you if you're not aware... maybe I just have a different perspective than most people.
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:45 pm
by Stranger
Gotta love Maynard!
Bottom line is the phone is a luxury. I don't care if you "need it for work", people did your job before cell phones existed and got along just fine.
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:56 pm
by Malcolm
...people did your job before cell phones existed and got along just fine.
Bullshit. Some of those jobs didn't exist before back in the day. Did a frontier doctor in 1830s Appalachia need a cell phone or a car? No. But he would've been a lot more effective if he had them. We did surgery without anesthesia, too. Is it possible to survive without? Sure, it's just less pleasant and likely.
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:15 pm
by Stranger
Malcolm wrote:...people did your job before cell phones existed and got along just fine.
Bullshit. Some of those jobs didn't exist before back in the day. Did a frontier doctor in 1830s Appalachia need a cell phone or a car? No. But he would've been a lot more effective if he had them. We did surgery without anesthesia, too. Is it possible to survive without? Sure, it's just less pleasant and likely.
Totally irrelevant argument there..
Don't need it, just a luxury.
Edited By Stranger on 1442258175
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:24 pm
by Malcolm
Stranger wrote:Malcolm wrote:...people did your job before cell phones existed and got along just fine.
Bullshit. Some of those jobs didn't exist before back in the day. Did a frontier doctor in 1830s Appalachia need a cell phone or a car? No. But he would've been a lot more effective if he had them. We did surgery without anesthesia, too. Is it possible to survive without? Sure, it's just less pleasant and likely.
Totally irrelevant argument there..
Don't need it, just a luxury.
No, entirely relevant. If your job requires ready and instantaneous communication, then you need a means to do so. Until telepathy comes along, smart phone wins.
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:46 pm
by TPRJones
Stranger, would you at least acknowledge that someone with the job of computer programmer "needs" a computer in order to do their job? Or is that also a luxury?
Edited By TPRJones on 1442262331
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:25 pm
by Stranger
TPRJones wrote:Stranger, would you at least acknowledge that someone with the job of computer program "needs" a computer in order to do their job? Or is that also a luxury?
I would, but we are talking about a cell phone aren't we?
Just my opinion, you're free to have yours also. To me, phone is luxury.
Edited By Stranger on 1442262456
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:43 pm
by TPRJones
Yes, we are, but I'm trying to establish a definition of "need" beyond just an arbitrary list of food, shelter, and clothing. Since an actual concrete definition hasn't been forthcoming, trying to feel one out by selected examples seemed the way to go.
Would you agree that someone working as a racecar driver "need" some sort of automotive?
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:58 pm
by Malcolm
A concrete definition of need? Insane. You might as well ask for a concrete definition of art. Fuck, you don't even need to exist, to be strict, so fuck oxygen. The Unabomber didn't need more than 100' or so square to live. If you imposed that base minimum on certain people, they would either: (i) kill themselves or (ii) dedicate their existence to finding a bigger living area. Some monks don't need more than noodles and water to live. For about four years of life, all you "need" to eat is ramen. A thousand years ago, all most people needed to worry about was pleasing their respective god(s), if you believe the contemporary sources. Nowadays, there's a "need" to fight climate change.
Edited By Malcolm on 1442264586
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:41 pm
by TheCatt
TPRJones wrote:Yes, we are, but I'm trying to establish a definition of "need" beyond just an arbitrary list of food, shelter, and clothing. Since an actual concrete definition hasn't been forthcoming, trying to feel one out by selected examples seemed the way to go.
Would you agree that someone working as a racecar driver "need" some sort of automotive?
Shelter and clothing are not a need.
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:41 pm
by TheCatt
No, the concrete definition is what you need to survive: food, water, air, sleep, and warmth. You need nothing else.