Welcome to Thunderdome

Alhazad wrote:

Leisher wrote:I don't know why anyone is voting for either of these two. One's an idiot, the other is a criminal. What a choice!

You're legendary in your insistence that voting is a sacred duty. Are you finally giving that up in the face of overwhelmingly shitty choices, or are you just mocking people who are voting 'for' Hillary or Trump instead of against them?

I wouldn't say legendary. I simply believe showing up to vote for anyone, even a write in candidate, means more than simply not voting.

And I'm mocking the folks who are voting for one or the other because the "other one" is nuts or evil or whatever. Vote for a third party candidate! Hell, write in "Mickey Mouse" and call it a day. Or if you simply have no other names on your ballot and you can't write in a name, vote for all the other races, and then don't vote in the presidential race only.

But don't vote for the turd sandwich or douchebag because "the other is worse".

Nobody, and I mean nobody, is excited to vote for Hillary. Her supporters staying home cannot be overlooked.

She has a base of rabid, anti-thinking followers the same as Donnie Douchebag.

If you were a Trump voter, but not one of the nutjobs, and a survey taker called your home, would you tell the truth about who you're voting for? Human nature says "no". That's the big problem with using shame as a weapon. You then lose your ability to track those who oppose you.

It's getting to the point where the polls would have to be off by so goddamned much that you'd need a widespread conspiracy among Trump supporters to hide their general sentiment. Subtlety, guile, and patience are not their strong points.

You, Malcolm, are fighting a personal war on Trump here while ignoring the person on the other side who has legit commited treason among other scandals and crimes.

Your standard for what constitutes warfare is pretty fucking broad. I'm not voting for his major opponent, I'm not donating money to his opponent, I'm not waylaying his voters on their way to the polls, I'm not picketing against him, I'm not going to his rallies and causing general chaos, ad nauseum. I've also not ignored Mrs. Bill. She's just nowhere near as entertaining mainly because she occasionally knows when to shut the fuck up.

More allegations of voter fraud.

"A former advisor to Donald Trump's presidential campaign accused Gov. Scott Walker and Republican National Committee Chair Reince Priebus of rigging multiple elections in Wisconsin. The Washington, D.C.-based political newspaper The Hill published a column Tuesday written by former Trump advisor Roger Stone. 'As someone with great sentimental attachment to the Republican Party, as I joined as the party of Goldwater, both parties have engaged in voting machine manipulation,' Stone wrote. 'Nowhere in the country has this been more true than Wisconsin, where there are strong indications that Scott Walker and the Reince Priebus machine rigged as many as five elections including the defeat of a Walker recall election.'

Leisher wrote:But don't vote for the turd sandwich or douchebag because "the other is worse".

I agree with this x1000

Malcolm wrote:

Nobody, and I mean nobody, is excited to vote for Hillary. Her supporters staying home cannot be overlooked.

She has a base of rabid, anti-thinking followers the same as Donnie Douchebag.

[/quote]

Yeah, I have to agree with this. I don't know how widespread is outside of the women in my family... but the women in my family are the ones on facebook telling everyone else, "I can't be friends with you if you aren't voting for Hillary."

It's absolutely fucking insane.

Or if you simply have no other names on your ballot and you can't write in a name, vote for all the other races, and then don't vote in the presidential race only.

That presumes that the rest of the races aren't also equally full of assholes and nitwits.

She has a base of rabid, anti-thinking followers the same as Donnie Douchebag.

I'm certain she does, but I know none of them. My FB feed is full of right wing and left wing nutjobs and nobody's praising Hillary. I think if you're excited to vote for Trump or Hillary, you're the problem with this country.

Subtlety, guile, and patience are not their strong points.

Way to buy into the MSM's propaganda. Actually, there was a new study just released earlier this week that showed the MSM's guesses about who Trump supporters are have been mixed in their accuracy. If I'm being completely honest, I'm surprised an anarchist such as yourself isn't voting for Trump. He's your dream candidate.

Your standard for what constitutes warfare is pretty fucking broad.

Here Malcolm. Here. I have no knowledge of anything you do in your personal life aside from drink, smoke pot, and attend concerts. Here, you have gone after Trump with a relentlessness that I've not seen previously.

That presumes that the rest of the races aren't also equally full of assholes and nitwits.

So go grab yourself a gun and join a militia.

I'm surprised an anarchist such as yourself isn't voting for Trump. He's your dream candidate.

Okay, 1) them's fightin' words, and 2) as an anarchist I'm very confused. How in any way is Trump supposed to appeal to any rational anarchist? He's very nearly the embodiment of the intersection of government and business described by "crony capitalism" which goes completely counter to everything anarchism is about.

So go grab yourself a gun and join a militia.

Wow. So you go straight from it being a patriotic duty to vote to it being a patriotic duty to join a revolution? Is there no middle ground?

How in any way is Trump supposed to appeal to any rational anarchist?

Because he's insane and chaos will ensue upon his election.

Wow. So you go straight from it being a patriotic duty to vote to it being a patriotic duty to join a revolution? Is there no middle ground?

No. That was more of a "shit or get off the pot" type of statement. Fine, the system sucks, so do something about it other than bitch on these forums. That sounds a lot harsher than intent it to, so don't offense. (And honestly, you're stepping in late to an ongoing discussion. so that and this next part will make more sense if you take that into account. I'm more talking to Malcolm who I've been debating with for a bit here.)

It's more simply about what the end game is for the abstainers. Ok, you won't vote, but what's the game plan to fight for the change you want or candidates you want? I get bitching about the system. I get bitching about candidates. I get bitching. It's fun and cathartic. However, at some point don't you have to attempt to make a change or you're the problem?

Way to buy into the MSM's propaganda. Actually, there was a new study just released earlier this week that showed the MSM's guesses about who Trump supporters are have been mixed in their accuracy.

What? I was referring to the supporters of his I saw frothing at the mouth during the RNC. I was watching Fox Spews, but seeing as how Donnie the Dick has alienated every single media outlet on this planet and probably others, I assume you'll still say the coverage was severely skewed.

Okay, 1) them's fightin' words, and 2) as an anarchist I'm very confused. How in any way is Trump supposed to appeal to any rational anarchist? He's very nearly the embodiment of the intersection of government and business described by "crony capitalism" which goes completely counter to everything anarchism is about.

Boom.

Here, you have gone after Trump with a relentlessness that I've not seen previously.

He keeps providing fodder in a way that no one else has previously, not even Mrs. Bill.

Because he's insane and chaos will ensue upon his election.

He is insane, I'll give you that. Chaos? Eh. Relatively speaking, maybe for a short while it'll be quite psychotic. In terms of classical apocalyptic scenarios, you'd have to hit upon a decent sized chain of psychos starting with the prez and going all the way down to the dude that pushes the big red button before anything Dr. Strangelovey went on. In terms of economics, he wouldn't get a hell of a lot done because Congress would stonewall him every time he tried to renegotiate a treaty or implement regulatory change. However, the real thing is Trump reminds me of this South Park ep...

"IT'S ALL ABOUT ME!!!! THE PARTY IS ALL ABOUT ME!!!!!"
Unlike TV, the pachyderm party-goers haven't quite come to the realization that the man of the hour is a whiny bitch who responds to criticism and adversity with less class and logic Joe Pesci in Goodfellas. Example: his hilarious claim he'll keep us out of foreign conflicts but he'll destroy ISIS in a month.

It's more simply about what the end game is for the abstainers. Ok, you won't vote, but what's the game plan to fight for the change you want or candidates you want?

I'd like a candidate with a legit chance for whom I could vote. "Legit" means they get official face time in national, televised debates. If they don't, they may as well be fucking invisible. That's going to be a bitch because the election system is rigged and closed to outsiders, and they don't give you the secret password until you suck enough dicks to earn membership. What's more, the gatekeepers seem to be proud of their contraption and see nothing wrong with it.

The end game is to withhold my vote until a non-fucktard comes along. Right now, I essentially have two sides vying for my vote, each of whom says much of the same bullshit in many of the same ways -- including the fantasy that NOT voting for them is tantamount to voting for their opponent. That's an ultimatum rooted in irrational, emotional browbeating.

However, at some point don't you have to attempt to make a change or you're the problem?

I fail to see how I had any impact on election regulations written and rubber stamped long before my birth. Furthermore, the non-voters aren't the problem. The voters are -- the major party whores who see everything in black and white, red and blue. If more people stopped voting for the jack-asses and pachyderms, maybe the shithead candidates and leaders would pay attention. I'd love to see their faces when they're each polling at 10% while "eat a dick, DC" is hovering near 75%.

Because he's insane and chaos will ensue upon his election.

And what in the world does that have to do with anarchism? Methinks you may be confused.

...so don't offense...

No worries, I almost never do.

Ok, you won't vote, but what's the game plan to fight for the change you want or candidates you want? I get bitching about the system. I get bitching about candidates. I get bitching. It's fun and cathartic. However, at some point don't you have to attempt to make a change or you're the problem?

The problem there is you are assuming there is anything to be done by the average American at this time. It simply doesn't matter if the mice vote to stop being eaten by the cat or vote against the proposition, the cat is still going to eat them regardless. And if the mice decide not to bother voting and just try to kill the cat they're still going to be eaten because a handful of mice aren't going to be able to kill a cat. So why do you insist they must spend their short lives struggling to do the impossible?

I just had an idea. If the Democrats want to motivate young people to vote they should organize a grass-roots effort to put lures at every voting place that has a pokestop (which is probably most of them). That'll get them to the polls, and many of them would probably vote as long as they're already there.

That presumes Pokemon Go is still popular come November, of course.

TPRJones wrote: The problem there is you are assuming there is anything to be done by the average American at this time. It simply doesn't matter if the mice vote to stop being eaten by the cat or vote against the proposition, the cat is still going to eat them regardless. And if the mice decide not to bother voting and just try to kill the cat they're still going to be eaten because a handful of mice aren't going to be able to kill a cat. So why do you insist they must spend their short lives struggling to do the impossible?

Hunker down. Make sure you have the means to shelter in place and hope that enough people reach a point of desire for self reliance and to be free before we all die of old age. I suspect our generation is done with self determination and freedom. Make sure the next generation has books that give accurate historical accountings of it. Keep a copy of "Common Sense" and "The Federalist Papers".

Hunker down? Again with the extremes. Calm down. I'm not expecting the end of the world here. I'm just expecting we'll all keep getting gently screwed in the ass by our wealthy overlords and the politicians who keep selling us out to them. And that voting can not have any concrete effect on whether we keep getting screwed in the ass or not because all you are choosing with your ballot is which of the politicians will get paid for selling you out.

I do think that there's a bright future ahead where people aren't screwed in the ass against their will, maybe sometime in the next 40 to 50 years or so as our society finishes the shift away from a scarcity-driven economy to an entertainment-driven economy. But anything we do now in terms of voting will have no more impact on our lives than who wins the Superbowl will.

No empire has withstood, not even the good ones. Things in America will continue slumping along as long as the status quo is maintained. 9/11 changed the status quo, and look what happened to our freedoms. When, not if, the next big thing happens... natural or man made.... things are going to change, again. Eventually, someone is going to have to hunker down.

I am so sick of this election that I purposely avoid these political threads now until I'm ready to get in a bad mood. I'm either hearing how Hillary will destroy America, or how Trump is Hitler, or how Gary Johnson and all who support him are assholes giving the election to Democrats or how doing nothing is a genius way to change the system. (That's a mix of what I hear here and on FB.)

The end game is to withhold my vote until a non-fucktard comes along. Right now, I essentially have two sides vying for my vote, each of whom says much of the same bullshit in many of the same ways -- including the fantasy that NOT voting for them is tantamount to voting for their opponent. That's an ultimatum rooted in irrational, emotional browbeating.

Furthermore, the non-voters aren't the problem. The voters are -- the major party whores who see everything in black and white, red and blue. If more people stopped voting for the jack-asses and pachyderms, maybe the shithead candidates and leaders would pay attention. I'd love to see their faces when they're each polling at 10% while "eat a dick, DC" is hovering near 75%.

And what in the world does that have to do with anarchism? Methinks you may be confused.

No I understand the movement, I just think it's flawed Utopian thinking. Not something I want to go into at length nor do I want to derailt this thread with it, so if you want to start another thread to discuss, go nuts. I'm just expressing my opinion.

No worries, I almost never do.

I didn't care for how I worded the statement and when I feel like I could be offended by something I wrote, I want to make sure my intent isn't confused.

The problem there is you are assuming there is anything to be done by the average American at this time.

And you are assuming there isn't.

It simply doesn't matter if the mice vote to stop being eaten by the cat or vote against the proposition, the cat is still going to eat them regardless. And if the mice decide not to bother voting and just try to kill the cat they're still going to be eaten because a handful of mice aren't going to be able to kill a cat. So why do you insist they must spend their short lives struggling to do the impossible?

History is filled with examples of the mouse killing the cat. Hell, if 12% of this country's population can make the other 88% walk on eggshells non-stop in fear based solely on skin color, then why can't a similar percentage make political waves?

And you are assuming there isn't.

You are correct. Perhaps that is the point we should be discussing.

Hell, if 12% of this country's population can make the other 88% walk on eggshells non-stop in fear based solely on skin color

Well, obviously that's not true. There's a lot of people you lump into that 88% that aren't walking on any eggshells, probably well more than half. The only people walking on eggshells are the mushbrained white democrats and those less-mushbrained in positions of power that are trying to use them for some purpose or another and therefore must give some lip-service to them. Not to mention that a fair portion of that 12% doesn't give a shit about that stuff either. It'd be far more accurate to say that 6% of the population has another 30% of the population walking on eggshells while another 10% pretends to play along and the other 54% doesn't give a crap about any of that. Because that 10% mentioned there are those in the public eye they get the most visibility, but that doesn't mean they are any sort of majority.

History is filled with examples of the mouse killing the cat.

No, it's not.

"I know this game, it's called cat and mouse. And there's only one way to win, don't be the mouse."

"What are you saying?"

"I'm saying the mouse never wins. Not unless you believe those lying cartoons."

It is by definition a rigged game, much like the political and voting system we have.

Hillary will destroy America

Others beat her to that years ago.

Trump is Hitler

Bah. Plainly false. Hitler was an effective civil organizer (those SA mobs weren't disorderly) and did real jail time. He also tolerated Muslims.

Gary Johnson and all who support him are assholes giving the election to Democrats

The person giving the election to the jack-asses is none other than Donnie Dickless. Gary's not going to be on the stage, take away electoral votes, or have a significant impact.

doing nothing is a genius way to change the system

The fuckers in charge have made it clear they will use every underhanded trick at their disposal, legal or otherwise, to keep this country sucking double ass on the two-party system. What's more, far too many voting dumb-asses drink the same kool-aid year in and year out and heartily approve. They don't want change, they want a new shade of bullshit every few years. Until the system catastrophically implodes due to its own bloat or enough of its proponents die, I see no possibility of it getting 1% better.

If the mice kill the cat that's violent revolution, which is not something I expect to see here in the US anytime soon. It's even less likely than a military coupe.

TPRJones wrote:It's even less likely than a military coupe.

It's not military until it's got a mounted .50 cal. That's merely camo.