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Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:32 pm
by TheCatt
TPRJones wrote:Interesting. So basically they're teaching all these kids the tricks that used to be taught to UIL Number Sense competitors in middle school. How old are these tricks aimed at?
EDIT: Been thinking about it, and while it's good to teach kids these tricks, I'm not sure it's a good way to teach the math. It doesn't seem like it would be a good way to get the basic concepts across. It's more something to teach them after they've been taught and practiced the basic related math operations and concepts.
I saw my oldest daughter struggle with having to explain everything. On the other hand, having gone through that struggle, her facility with numbers has increased greatly once it all clicked.
But yes, this starts at 1st grade/6 year olds.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:49 pm
by GORDON
Well, again, this seems to be a solution looking for a problem. It isn't like this is going to increase the number of kids going to college, or becoming math majors. Smart gets will succeed, dumb kids won't, average kids will be average, and someone is making money selling new text books.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:55 pm
by TPRJones
It'll be years before we see how this works out, but I can tell you that 80% of our incoming students have to take at least one developmental Math class because they aren't up to the standards expected for incoming high school graduates.
60% need to take two or more semesters of developmental Math to get up to speed.
It's very sad.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:57 pm
by GORDON
TPRJones wrote:It'll be years before we see how this works out, but I can tell you that 80% of our incoming students have to take at least one developmental Math class because they aren't up to the standards expected for incoming high school graduates.
60% need to take two or more semesters of developmental Math to get up to speed.
It's very sad.
This has nothing to do with math, and everything to do with the kids not being raised right. Previous generations did just fine, but there has been Progress made.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:59 pm
by Vince
TheCatt wrote:There was no one-carrying there.
7+4... I'm messing with you.
When so many people are pushing so hard to make something like this mandatory, I have to wonder what the motivation is. And as I've stated before, it's money.
It's not like the old way of teaching was crashing and bursting into flames killing children. Why not have some test groups to see if this is of benefit? Why were there no grade school educators involved with the curriculum? Something stinks to high heaven with this stuff.
When liberals and conservatives are coming together against something, then it certainly warrants another good look.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:07 pm
by Malcolm
When liberals and conservatives are coming together against something, then it certainly warrants another good look.
Based on that sentence alone, my reply would be, "Yeah. It might worth pursuing."
Edited By Malcolm on 1415218035
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:50 pm
by GORDON
TPRJones wrote:It'll be years before we see how this works out, but I can tell you that 80% of our incoming students have to take at least one developmental Math class because they aren't up to the standards expected for incoming high school graduates.
60% need to take two or more semesters of developmental Math to get up to speed.
It's very sad.
And by the way, I never had to take the remedial math in order to start the math for my MIS degree. I can't imagine how stupid a person would have to be to not be able to ace the college entrance, math placement tests. If nothing else it was all multiple choice and you could work backwards with the answers provided to see if they fit the given equation.
Fuck, man.... I even aced it again when I started more classes for fun at a different college 10 years after my previous math class. This has nothing to do with common core. Not everyone is cut out for college, full stop.
Edited By GORDON on 1415224253
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:25 pm
by GORDON
I'm so fucking smart that I also pepper sprayed myself, today. I was running the mower over the pepper garden, and peppers came in so good this year that probably 100 jalepeno, habenaro, and banana peppers rotted on the plant. I ran over them, raised a cloud of dust, didn't think about it, and took a good, deep breath. Then I immediately started evacuating all the mucous out of my respiratory system.
So smart.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:26 pm
by Vince
The method used for math that's been in use for at least a century hasn't suddenly stopped working. Either the teaching instruction is busted, or the kids are busted, or (as Gordo says) maybe this is just where kids always were but now they all are told they have to go to college, or a combination of the above.
But CC math isn't going to fix any of that. Even Catt said his oldest struggled with all of it and I'm fairly confident that she falls on the right side of the bell curve.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:05 pm
by TheCatt
1) Maybe there are better ways for kids as an aggregate to learn math. Better than have been used for 100 years.
2) Teachers have gotten worse. I have no doubt on that. I'm kinda hoping adaptive learning techniques will fill the gaps here.
CC math may help #1. CC math can be implemented in adapted learning (like any other math instruction) for #2.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:16 pm
by Vince
I see your hopes Catt, but even if I didn't think the math was wrong headed I don't believe a more complicated process is going to help an already broken system.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:20 pm
by Malcolm
GORDON wrote:TPRJones wrote:It'll be years before we see how this works out, but I can tell you that 80% of our incoming students have to take at least one developmental Math class because they aren't up to the standards expected for incoming high school graduates.
60% need to take two or more semesters of developmental Math to get up to speed.
It's very sad.
This has nothing to do with math, and everything to do with the kids not being raised right. Previous generations did just fine, but there has been Progress made.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Previous generations had this bullshit, too.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:28 pm
by Malcolm
The method used for math that's been in use for at least a century hasn't suddenly stopped working.
True. But to say that one way of learning is the best for all is dumb. I say that as someone who's learned and taught math in grad and undergrad.
Either the teaching instruction is busted, or the kids are busted, or (as Gordo says) maybe this is just where kids always were but now they all are told they have to go to college, or a combination of the above.
If the math teachers of today are anything like back in the "good ol' days" then there's plenty of incompetence to go around. There's also the possibility of the kids simply being stupid or lazy.
But CC math isn't going to fix any of that. Even Catt said his oldest struggled with all of it and I'm fairly confident that she falls on the right side of the bell curve.
How do you know it won't? Not everything's supposed to come easy. Some concepts require your brain to chew on them for a long while before something, some day, clicks into place, and you go, "Oh shit, that's how it works." I learned at least two to three different definitions of what "linear mathematics" meant. One was a purely graphical interpretation. Additionally, the hardest math course I ever took was a math foundations one. It smashed things down to such a low level, all the rules you normally cling to got thrown out the window. To the point where evaluating the square root of two was a fucking five-page proof.
Edited By Malcolm on 1415237332
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:28 pm
by GORDON
At 6 years old?
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:46 pm
by Vince
Malcolm wrote:How do you know it won't? Not everything's supposed to come easy. Some concepts require your brain to chew on them for a long while before something, some day, clicks into place, and you go, "Oh shit, that's how it works." I learned at least two to three different definitions of what "linear mathematics" meant. One was a purely graphical interpretation. Additionally, the hardest math course I ever took was a math foundations one. It smashed things down to such a low level, all the rules you normally cling to got thrown out the window. To the point where evaluating the square root of two was a fucking five-page proof.
I see your hopes Catt, but even if I didn't think the math was wrong headed I don't believe a more complicated process is going to help an already broken system.
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:18 am
by GORDON
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:44 am
by Vince
Like I said, he's not nearly as smart as Clinton was. I shouldn't say that. I don't think it is even comparing smarts. I don't think Bill Clinton had the level of Megalomania as Obama (and that's saying something). Plus Clinton was very smooth at displaying what he wanted when in public. Obama can't help but throw little fits like a child in public.
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:09 am
by Malcolm
GORDON wrote:At 6 years old?
Relatively speaking. They shouldn't be doing calculus proofs but, in terms of math, something should be pushing their brain. Learning is not meant to be easy. Your brain tends to do it best with some motivation and pressure. Not too simple, not too difficult. As you edge closer to "too difficult," you have to ramp up the effort and time, but you increase your command and application of the knowledge.
I see your hopes Catt, but even if I didn't think the math was wrong headed I don't believe a more complicated process is going to help an already broken system.
There's nothing broken about what I said. There are multiple ways to interpret mathematical concepts. They range from purely numerical to purely graphical. Jumping around on a number line isn't wrong.
Edited By Malcolm on 1415290228
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:09 pm
by GORDON
I'd seen rumors that ebola stories were being buried by the media before the midterms to protect obama. I ignored the rumors.
After the election, here's hundreds of people being actively monitored in NYC alone.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news....21.html
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:21 pm
by Malcolm
There are 40-something in my town.