Fantastic Four - ... yeah, reboot

[Leisher]

Michael B. Jordan might want to look around a bit himself.

Black people are a minority. They're not even the largest minority in this country, yet they've vastly more represented in Hollywood than the largest minority, Hispanics.

I'll grant him that there are folks upset he's in the movie simply because he's black. Yes, that's ignorant.

However, aren't fans of a product for 50+ years allowed to be disappointed that the filmmakers aren't staying true to the source material? To those fans, he should be offering an apology and asking them to just give it a chance.

[GORDON]

Well obviously that's why all those people hated the casting of Nick Fury. Everyone is a racist.



Edited By GORDON on 1432595849

[TheCatt]

I'll grant him that there are folks upset he's in the movie simply because he's black. Yes, that's ignorant.

However, aren't fans of a product for 50+ years allowed to be disappointed that the filmmakers aren't staying true to the source material? To those fans, he should be offering an apology and asking them to just give it a chance.

Yes, and the world owes Nazis and the kkk apologies too. What about people who grew up in Jim crow? Do thos white people read he an apology for the government' s changes?

[Leisher]

I'll grant him that there are folks upset he's in the movie simply because he's black. Yes, that's ignorant.

However, aren't fans of a product for 50+ years allowed to be disappointed that the filmmakers aren't staying true to the source material? To those fans, he should be offering an apology and asking them to just give it a chance.

Yes, and the world owes Nazis and the kkk apologies too. What about people who grew up in Jim crow? Do thos white people read he an apology for the government' s changes?

What? That last sentence might have made your point, but I can't decipher what you were trying to say.

I hope you're not trying to compare Nazis and the KKK to people being upset that they're changing the dynamic of a brother-sister relationship in a piece of fiction that might have been created 50 years ago, but was still publishing new books with that same dynamic as of this year? That would be one hell of a stretch.

Or does everyone just have to accept all changes forced upon them and not even be remotely disappointed if something they might have dreamed of their whole life gets changed? Because, you know, if you disagree with ANYTHING for ANY reason, you're racist or whatever other label helps to shun you and shut you up.

Yay freedom of speech!

[GORDON]

Remember the shit when Khan was cast with a white actor?

[TheCatt]

Or does everyone just have to accept all changes forced upon them and not even be remotely disappointed if something they might have dreamed of their whole life gets changed? Because, you know, if you disagree with ANYTHING for ANY reason, you're racist or whatever other label helps to shun you and shut you up.

Then they're taking these characters too seriously.

Your point seemed to be that changing a race was something the actor (who wasn't even the one who made the decision) would need to apologize for. (You didn't mention the sibling thing earlier, I don't believe) I think that's insane. But if you think race is worth apologizing over, then shouldn't the US government apologize to Nazis for changing their race relations? Same with the KKK?

At any rate, no one is owed an apology.

[Leisher]

People were pissed about that casting...

This was to Gordon's post.



Edited By Leisher on 1432599509

[Leisher]

Then they're taking these characters too seriously.

Oh bullshit. I don't see anyone protesting the film or giving him death threats. If they are, fuck them. I'm not defending them.

And I'd argue your constant frustration over the Redskins' decisions is in the same vein. Maybe you're taking them too seriously?

Are you honestly arguing people can't express their opinion over disappointment about a casting? I guess all the folks who thought the casting of Nic Cage as Superman are also ignorant.

Your point seemed to be that changing a race was something the actor (who wasn't even the one who made the decision) would need to apologize for. (You didn't mention the sibling thing earlier, I don't believe) I think that's insane. But if you think race is worth apologizing over, then shouldn't the US government apologize to Nazis for changing their race relations? Same with the KKK?

Just curious, did you read the article? It doesn't seem like you did and are only reacting to my comments. Kind of important you read his comments as he's kind of a dick about everything.

He calls everyone who disagrees with his casting ignorant and paints them ALL as racist. But since he's on the side of "change because" I guess he gets a pass for the same behavior you're condemning other for?

I'm just saying that maybe he shouldn't be calling fans of the product who are just disappointed that they're changing the core fundamental of "Marvel's First Family" ignorant racists. Is it really so bad for me to say maybe instead of fire bombing those folks, he should be reaching out to them? I'm sure the folks at Fox would agree. His statements aren't selling a single ticket, and I'd wager they're having the opposite effect.

I'm not advocating the racists who are ranting. I'm pointing out that he should show more restraint for those folks who might not consider this a deal killer, but are disappointed.

But no, keep bashing everyone with a differing opinion and force them underground. That'll end well.

[TheCatt]

Seriously, you cast a black dude to play the human torch in the reboot. That's so not right!! (Not being racist, no offense)

New cast of #FantasticFour reboot sucks! Human Torch is now black for some PC reason. Stick to the source material and stop the nonsense!

Like why is Michael b Jordan in that film as Johnny???? WHEN WAS THE HUMAN TORCH EVER BLACK ? HIS SISTER IS WHITE ? WTF

I'm not racist, but how can you have a black human torch and pasty white invisible woman, they're fucking brother and sister for fuck sake

Human torch is black all of a sudden and we are supposed to accept it out out white guilt? Please. Let's also make George Washington black or Sherlock Holmes female. For that matter why not just make the human torch have Thors hammer instead of fire powers? Johnny Storm is a WHITE DUDE. He has been created already. Want more black superheroes? Then make more! Stop trying to rewrite history!

I think I can summarize all of these as "I claim not be racist, but I'm lying"

[Leisher]

Seriously, you cast a black dude to play the human torch in the reboot. That's so not right!! (Not being racist, no offense)

New cast of #FantasticFour reboot sucks! Human Torch is now black for some PC reason. Stick to the source material and stop the nonsense!

Like why is Michael b Jordan in that film as Johnny???? WHEN WAS THE HUMAN TORCH EVER BLACK ? HIS SISTER IS WHITE ? WTF

I'm not racist, but how can you have a black human torch and pasty white invisible woman, they're fucking brother and sister for fuck sake

Human torch is black all of a sudden and we are supposed to accept it out out white guilt? Please. Let's also make George Washington black or Sherlock Holmes female. For that matter why not just make the human torch have Thors hammer instead of fire powers? Johnny Storm is a WHITE DUDE. He has been created already. Want more black superheroes? Then make more! Stop trying to rewrite history!

I think I can summarize all of these as "I claim not be racist, but I'm lying"

Bah, that's crap and you know it. I mean grabbing specific comments from hundreds or thousands and then blanket labeling them based on your own opinion is supposed to prove what exactly?

Look, as I've stated multiple times, there are racists who just see skin color. The casting of Heimdal was a FAR more clear cut case of that. I'll grant said racists a point there: Not many Vikings were black. That being said, his race affected NOTHING. It was never a plot point anywhere.

Johnny Storm's was a plot point. Many times.

Considering those folks who read FF are your core audience, it's probably not the wisest move to have your actor painting them all as ignorant racists. That's why I said he should be offering those folks an olive branch instead of hitting everyone with the same hammer. Last time I checked the proper way to remove weeds from your lawn wasn't to set the whole thing on fire.

(And let's gloss over how his blanket labeling everyone who disagrees with his casting isn't "ignorant" at all.)

I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but they should be allowed a forum to express their disappointment without being labeled as racists.

For the record, I couldn't care less if they cast a black, Jewish, albino, redheaded, Nazi little person as Johnny Storm. I have never liked the FF and I hope this movie bombs. Why? I want Marvel to get the FF back and there's a good chance of that happening if it crashes.

That all being said, if they make Iron Fist black, I will be pissed and vocal about it. The entire theme of he and Luke Cage's partnership and friendship was that Cage (already cast) was black and he was white.

[TheCatt]

I mean grabbing specific comments from hundreds or thousands and then blanket labeling them based on your own opinion is supposed to prove what exactly?

Those are specifically racist comments, showing the racist reaction some people are having.

I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but they should be allowed a forum to express their disappointment without being labeled as racists.

Then they should make comments that aren't solely about race.

I don't think the actor owes those people anything, no olive branch, no apology.

[GORDON]

I mean grabbing specific comments from hundreds or thousands and then blanket labeling them based on your own opinion is supposed to prove what exactly?

Those are specifically racist comments, showing the racist reaction some people are having.

I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but they should be allowed a forum to express their disappointment without being labeled as racists.

Then they should make comments that aren't solely about race.

I don't think the actor owes those people anything, no olive branch, no apology.

I also don't think the actor needs to do anything, but I stopped watched Star Trek: Deep Space 9 when I found out the actor playing Sisko was a punk-ass race bitch, and as of now I'm not going to see this movie or the same reason.

He'd better get his PR manager to be charming on his behalf.

[Vince]

Casting a black man, if for no other reason than diversity, is in itself racist.

On the other hand when the West family was cast with black actors in The Flash, I wasn't too sure about that. Seemed a little PC driven. Since then though, some of my favorite scenes of character interaction have involved Jesse Martin. He's been a lot of fun on that show and I'm glad he was cast.

[Leisher]

Those are specifically racist comments, showing the racist reaction some people are having.

For what purpose? I already established there are folks reacting purely on racism and I'm not talking about them. So, why'd you point them out to counter me?

Then they should make comments that aren't solely about race.

Kind of tough when it IS about race.

And that's the problem. Black people can write articles about how whitey needs to stay out of their secret meetings because all white people are in some secret world wide society of privilege which makes minorities feel bad (in this country), and that's not racist. But someone being disappointed that a fictional character that's been white for 50-60 years having their race changed "just because" means they're racist?

Casting a black man, if for no other reason than diversity, is in itself racist.

Diversity needs to exist and Hollywood properties shouldn't just be a bunch of crackers, but it also shouldn't be super heavy on black people either. They're the second largest minority yet get a LOT more representation in Hollywood than the largest minority.

On a related note, another group that's pretty underrepresented is women.

I stopped watched Star Trek: Deep Space 9 when I found out the actor playing Sisko was a punk-ass race bitch, and as of now I'm not going to see this movie or the same reason.

And this is why I said Michael B. Jordan needs to act differently. Granted, it's not his job to teach people not to be ignorant, but it IS his job to sell tickets. How good a job do you think he's doing by blanket labeling anyone who might have misgivings about his casting as ignorant and racist?

On another related note, anyone notice how nobody gave a fuck that The Rock was cast as Black Adam despite the racial differences between the character and actor?

[TPRJones]

So, are Johnny Storm and Sue Storm still brother and sister or not?

Apparently Kate Mara was going to read the comics in preparation for the role, but was told not to by the director and the writer. Specifically they told her the movie would have no relation of any sort to the comic books. If so, why the fuck even call the damn thing Fantastic Four in the first place?



Edited By TPRJones on 1432665129

[GORDON]

So, are Johnny Storm and Sue Storm still brother and sister or not?

Apparently Kate Mara was going to read the comics in preparation for the role, but was told not to by the director and the writer. Specifically they told her the movie would have no relation of any sort to the comic books. If so, why the fuck even call the damn thing Fantastic Four in the first place?

Maybe we can look at it as a live-action The Incredibles.

[TheCatt]

They are making an Incredibles sequel for next year, FYI.

[TheCatt]

Apparently Kate Mara was going to read the comics in preparation for the role, but was told not to by the director and the writer. Specifically they told her the movie would have no relation of any sort to the comic books. If so, why the fuck even call the damn thing Fantastic Four in the first place?

Director's perspective on that quote:

I think what Kate meant, and I read that comment, I think what she meant which was right is that it’s not based on any one run [...] DAYS OF FUTURE PAST was obviously based on DAYS OF FUTURE PAST comic run and that was something that I could easily give the actors to read and they’d know the whole story. In this case because we are really snatching details, story lines, moments, action sequences from across the whole gambit of the decades of FANTASTIC FOUR, there isn’t one comic that defines the movie.

From here

[Vince]

Casting a black man, if for no other reason than diversity, is in itself racist.

Diversity needs to exist and Hollywood properties shouldn't just be a bunch of crackers, but it also shouldn't be super heavy on black people either. They're the second largest minority yet get a LOT more representation in Hollywood than the largest minority.

I agree diversity needs to exist. But for casting the race should either be determined in the writing, or if not specified by the writing because the black guy had the best audition.



Edited By Vince on 1432676440

[Leisher]

Apparently Kate Mara was going to read the comics in preparation for the role, but was told not to by the director and the writer. Specifically they told her the movie would have no relation of any sort to the comic books. If so, why the fuck even call the damn thing Fantastic Four in the first place?

Director's perspective on that quote:

I think what Kate meant, and I read that comment, I think what she meant which was right is that it’s not based on any one run [...] DAYS OF FUTURE PAST was obviously based on DAYS OF FUTURE PAST comic run and that was something that I could easily give the actors to read and they’d know the whole story. In this case because we are really snatching details, story lines, moments, action sequences from across the whole gambit of the decades of FANTASTIC FOUR, there isn’t one comic that defines the movie.

From here

I'm having trouble remembering the storyline where Dr. Doom was the online handle for an "anti-social programmer"...

Also, the director's story about Mara is bullshit. Well, the part where he takes credit is because the writer is the one that told her the plot is based on decades of stories.

So, are Johnny Storm and Sue Storm still brother and sister or not?

Yes, but they have to be step siblings, right? I mean they look NOTHING alike, and I'm not just talking skin color.

Speaking of skin color, someone on IMDB asked:

Why not make the whole cast black

The first reply was:

Because Tyler Perry won't put up the money to sub-lease and produce an all black Fantastic Four so it can make 12 million at the box office.

Funny because it's so true.

Back to my debate with Cattt...
Racist FF fans at it again!!

If this were a court room I'd spike a football and scream "The defense rests!" (And then I'd go to jail for contempt...)