2024 General Election Thread

[TheCatt]

You can, but you're wrong

[TheCatt]

Also... uh, where is Trump? why so silent?

[GORDON]

In the days after, I've been seeing a lot of post-game analysis from democrats.

Most of it boils down to two things:

1. The right was tricked by lies (possibly because they're dumb. But at the very least foreign influence.).
2. The country just isn't as good and kind as we think it is and they're happy they get to be racist and oppress women.

And this makes me sad. Because it means they truly don't get it, and there's another 4 years of no chance that any party will figure out how to actually give Americans what they want and need... it's 100% about winning the game no matter what you have to say or do to do it.

[GORDON]

Also, SNL just very delicately lampooned the super serious democrat voter:



I liked the "Handmaid Tale" reference. Because I've been seeing a TON of that.

[TheCatt]

I got $10,300,010! (I did not know the porn star, or the other names - Unless Michael Brown was one?)

I think the right was fed misinformation, the evidence sure shows it. Why pick so many down-ballot Dems and dem policies, but then vote Trump? I think the Dems should have run a different candidate. Oh well.

[GORDON]

The average person doesn't care about the stock market, they care about low energy, food, and housing prices. Give them that and you win.

[TheCatt]

I know you won't read this, but it's interesting: https://www.wsj.com/economy/economy-ele ... _permalink

In particular, the 2 graphs. So, yes, inflation has been defeated.

But, look at the housing affordability chart. For the 80s, 90s, and 00s, until the financial crisis, housing affordability averaged a bit over 100. Then, it shot up ridiculously after the financial crisis as the Fed but their whole fist on the scales with Quantitative Easing, averaging around 175. When the Fed pulled back in the 2020s, and the covid $$ came in, it plummeted back to 100. The fed actions of the financial crisis and the government $$ injections severely skewed housing markets.

I don't know what Trump can do to "fix" things other than bankrupt the country.

[GORDON]

With such deep deficit spending and huge debt, how is the country not already bankrupt?

[Leisher]

I know you won't read this

I read it, and it further proves what you wouldn't listen to about that survey you posted.

What we're seeing, imho, is two fold:
1. Wall St's "you must make a profit every quarter", which I have said constantly is unsustainable, is more visible than ever in day to day prices, but we don't know what we're looking at yet. Point being, all the traditional economic measures are no longer telling the real story.
2. The housing affordability index is missing something. I mean some data point is not there that needs to be there to be accurate.

All the Haves are financially secure. They're not feeling the pinch of the high cost of living and don't understand what people are bitching about. They think the economy is fine.

The Havenots are struggling to pay bills and buy food. They're foregoing their regular purchases and skipping out on restaurants. If the Havenots cannot afford a comfortable lifestyle, particularly one they're used to, they're going to rebel.

No idea what the fix is, but something has to change.

[TheCatt]

Housing affordability dropped 75% in that chart. I'm not sure what else that needs for 'accuracy' ?

No idea what the fix is, but something has to change.

If people don't want to be stressed, they need to 1) earn more money and 2) have that money go further, and 3) have fewer things to worry about that money doing.

Higher minimum wage, taxes on the rich, and socialized medicine. Not "tariffs + removing illegals"

[GORDON]

I'm not sure but I think you just said "let them eat cake."

[TheCatt]

I'm not sure but I think you just said "let them eat cake."

I think said "give them some fucking cake"

[Cakedaddy]

Two things:

1. Wall Street doesn't just demand profit every quarter. I mean, that's the minimum that has to happen. Without profit, you go out of business. It's demanding MORE profit that's breaking things.

2. Inflation is under control, but the damage is done. Prices are high, and they are staying there. People aren't feeling continuing inflation, they are feeling the high inflation that already happened.

McD's raised their prices because they had to increase wages during the labor shortage. Wages have gone back down, but the price of the food has not. Greed is keeping the prices high (must make more profit), and prices aren't going up any more (inflation is under control), but the high prices linger.

I know 'deflation' is bad. But can prices be lowered without it being 'deflation'?

[TheCatt]

"greed"

Thanks, Kamala.

I know 'deflation' is bad. But can prices be lowered without it being 'deflation'?

No.

And why would they? If the market will bear a price, that's the price. Welcome to capitalism. I guess you want socialism?

[Cakedaddy]

Speaking of corporate greed. It's just greed in general. Why hold corporations accountable for their actions, but not the average person? The average home owner has that same greed. No one is lowering the price of their homes any more than Pepsi is lowering the price of your pop. Everyone is out to get paid right now.

[Cakedaddy]

"greed"

Thanks, Kamala.

I know 'deflation' is bad. But can prices be lowered without it being 'deflation'?

No.

And why would they? If the market will bear a price, that's the price. Welcome to capitalism. I guess you want socialism?

Dude, I'm generally on the same page as you. But if you keep comin' at me.

It is greed though. You are calling it capitalism. . . but saying the same thing. But ya. It's greed keeping prices high and paychecks low.

And for the record, raising minimum wage sounds pretty Kamala too!

[TheCatt]

You're saying "capitalism bad," but I'm not hearing what your solution is, I guess?

I love capitalism, but it has issues because we are not all equal, so we need some level of forced equality (minimum standard of living, progressive taxes, etc), imho. The invisible hand = greed. So that's the foundation of capitalism (and humans) and you're not going to get rid of it, right? So work around it.

[Cakedaddy]

No.

But I've been seeing prices go down on things in my world (I only consume so many things), but I don't see it as a sign of bad things to come. I feel like if profits go from 30% to 70% and then back to 30% as a correction as apposed to deflation. Why wouldn't it work that way?

[TheCatt]

No.

But I've been seeing prices go down on things in my world (I only consume so many things), but I don't see it as a sign of bad things to come. I feel like if profits go from 30% to 70% and then back to 30% as a correction as apposed to deflation. Why wouldn't it work that way?

Prices going down here and there is fine, and often happens for things like energy prices (or products based on them, etc). But the general trend is always up. A general trend of down typically generates very destructive behavior (ask Japan how their lost decades were, or our Great Depression).

Competition should spur normal competitive profits. If you look at the past four years, corporate profits have not been terribly abnormal: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1Pik (Click Max to make sure you are seeing all years)

For 2010-2020 they were largely 9-10% (spiking higher 2012-2013) of GDP, and have been 11-12% since COVID. So relative to recent history, they are up about 20%. But, that 20% isn't prices being up 20%, it's profit.

An NYU report on U.S. margins revealed the average net profit margin is 7.71% across different industries

20% of 8% is 1.6%.

[Leisher]

Housing affordability dropped 75% in that chart. I'm not sure what else that needs for 'accuracy' ?

Well, what are the metrics within? The chart says houses are affordable, but the actual consumers are saying bullshit. Considering most people need loans to buy groceries, I'd say the consumers are right.

I think said "give them some fucking cake"

That's what I read.

I love capitalism, but it has issues because we are not all equal, so we need some level of forced equality (minimum standard of living, progressive taxes, etc), imho. The invisible hand = greed. So that's the foundation of capitalism (and humans) and you're not going to get rid of it, right? So work around it.

First, consumers are supposed to have equal control in that invisible hand, but they have nothing. The invisible hand is just viciously fisting them.

Second, I also love capitalism, and I agree with you that a tweak needs to be made. Perhaps we would disagree with the tweak, but I do think it's easily identified. Although, admittedly probably crazy difficult to put into practice.

That tweak is one Wall St and the corporate world already push heavily, so it's ironic: Sustainability.

Just like they want all corporations, and even consumers, to start ensuring that we're not destroying the globe, using up all raw materials, and yada yada yada, corporations should treat consumers the same way. You cannot hire skeleton crews, pay them the bare minimum, and then expect communities to thrive with a consumer base flush with money to spend. Every corporation is getting their profit from the same source: the consumer. Consumers are not endless pits of money. Corporations need to find a way to balance things so that they don't price consumers to death.

Yes, I know, "invisible hand", but as I mentioned, consumers have lost their power over the hand.

The corporate world should have a vested interest in building a strong society where citizens thrive. "A rising tide lifts all ships" or however that goes.