Will there be a car bailout before bankruptcy?

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:47 pm

The government could take back the money should the automakers not comply with federal restrictions as a condition of receiving the funds...

Anyone wanna bet on this?

Post by **Vince** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:35 pm

How many airlines have filed for bankruptcy and realigned their debt and are still around? I don't get this doom and gloom if they file for bankruptcy.

WSGrundy · Post by **WSGrundy** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:40 pm

Vince wrote:How many airlines have filed for bankruptcy and realigned their debt and are still around? I don't get this doom and gloom if they file for bankruptcy.

I think it is because bankruptcy means that the Big 3 can throw out the union contracts and having a non-union job is the same as being unemployed. Probably worse. That is my guess after hearing some of the workers talk.

Mommy Dearest · Post by **Mommy Dearest** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:44 pm

Vince wrote:How many airlines have filed for bankruptcy and realigned their debt and are still around? I don't get this doom and gloom if they file for bankruptcy.

And how many airlines have been bailed out by the government? Especially since 911?

Post by **Vince** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:07 am

Mommy Dearest wrote:
Vince wrote:How many airlines have filed for bankruptcy and realigned their debt and are still around? I don't get this doom and gloom if they file for bankruptcy.
And how many airlines have been bailed out by the government? Especially since 911?

I wish we'd had a conservative in office the last 8 years...

Post by **TheCatt** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:15 am

President Bush will make a 9 a.m. announcement about a possible bailout for troubled automakers. More soon.

Post by **TheCatt** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:52 am

Up to $17.4 billion in low interest loans. No details yet on concessions.

Mommy Dearest · Post by **Mommy Dearest** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:08 am

Vince wrote:
Mommy Dearest wrote:
Vince wrote:How many airlines have filed for bankruptcy and realigned their debt and are still around? I don't get this doom and gloom if they file for bankruptcy.
And how many airlines have been bailed out by the government? Especially since 911?
I wish we'd had a conservative in office the last 8 years...

Yes that would have been nice.

Post by **TheCatt** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:13 am

Agreed.

Apparently the rules require "UAW work rules and compensation to be competitive by the end of the year." I don't know if that's the end of this year or next year.

Post by **TheCatt** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:15 am

The loans come with strings attached, including limits on executive compensation and a ban on the use of corporate jets. The automakers will need to restructure, getting tough concessions from creditors, suppliers and the labor union.

The deal also includes as non-binding "target" key provisions, including making work rules and wages competitive with workers at foreign car companies in the U.S.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson will administer the plan until Jan. 20, at which point there will be another presidential designee to oversee the loans under the new administration.

If the companies cannot prove they are financially viable by March 31, the loans will be recalled and the money returned to the Treasury.

The White House is also calling for no dividends for stockholders until the money is paid back, and stipulating that the government can block transactions over $100 million.

Other non-binding targets of the plan include debt reductions by two-thirds as well as the elimination of jobs banks, a system that allows workers to get paid a large percentage of their wages even when they're not called in to work.

"non-binding"?

Post by **Vince** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:34 pm

They worried about consumer confidence if they'd filed chapter 11. My gut tells me there's going to be a bigger backlash for this than there would have been for filing ch 11. I know I can't see buying a car made by them for the next decade or two. Maybe Ford since they said, "No thanks", but it's too soon to tell.

Post by **TheCatt** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:04 pm

I'd say something like "I'll never buy a GM/Chrysler car," but I mean - I wasn't going to anyway. Cept maybe a Jeep, as a 2nd car. So I won't do that.

Post by **Vince** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:16 pm

Giben the reasons given for giving the big three money, does that mean they're going to give Toyota money now too? They're scrapping plans on opening new plants here in the states which will impact jobs here.

Post by **TheCatt** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:23 pm

This is bullshit.

8,000 GM employees get free cars every 6 months + unlimited free gas.

Well, apparently it does cost $250/month, so not entirely free.

what the fuck?

Post by **TPRJones** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:26 am

I expect a hue and cry from the green crowd about this being why GM doesn't do more for building environmentally friendly vehicles.

Post by **Vince** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:41 am

I would expect a hue and cry from everyone that was screaming about the AIG bonuses, but somehow I doubt this'll get the same coverage.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:40 pm

GM has talked about ending the program, but a spokesman said employees have built their lives around it. It allows many to live far from their offices and commute at little expense.

The spokesman said killing the program now would be "extremely" disruptive.

Fuck you. How about we 86 your entire company, jerkweed?

Post by **TheCatt** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:43 pm

This is why we need bankruptcy.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:43 pm

TheCatt wrote:This is why we need bankruptcy.

This is why we need firing squads that aim for the kneecaps.

Post by **TheCatt** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:14 pm

TheCatt wrote:Overall, I think the government, on behalf of taxpayers, should play it's strong hand. It KNOWS that there is no other option for these companies for funding other than the government. They should demand significant cuts from everyone involved, force a bankruptcy to allow for easier reorganization, but publicly state that they will back/endorse warranties/service from the companies.

*cough* *cough*