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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:34 am
by Leisher
Amazon is deleting 1-star reviews. There were over 1400 a few minutes ago, it is now around 1350.
As of 11:29 a.m. EST:
34 - 5 star reviews
22 - 4 star reviews
10 - 3 star reviews
31 - 2 star reviews
1,378 - 1 star reviews
A lot of people download cracked games to "try them out" then either get done/finished/bored with it, or figure "hey, i've already got it, why pay?" and don't bother spending the money.
We're rapidly heading to a point where individual users are going to be crucified as an example like the RIAA has done.
With consoles, if you want to try it you have to buy it first (or rent/borrow/etc)... either way, the publishers are doing much better.
I've heard it said that if game makers had their way, renting games would not be an option.
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:37 am
by TPRJones
The consumer is being forced to jump through all these hoops and like Gordon points out, the pirates don't.
It occurs to me that this is a bit similar to the gun control debate. If you limit access to guns, only criminals will have them. If you make your protection too restrictive, only criminals will play your game.
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:39 am
by GORDON
TheCatt wrote:GORDON wrote:Amazon is deleting 1-star reviews. There were over 1400 a few minutes ago, it is now around 1350.
1374 out of 1471 reviews.
The number of 1-stars is creeping back up, again.
1. New reviews are outrunning the amazon review/delete process.
2. Amazon is rethinking their decision to piss off the customers vs. pissing off EA
3. They just deleted reviews with profanity... something like that.
I dunno. This amazon/spore thing is fashionable today, let's see what it looks like tomorrow.
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:41 am
by TPRJones
I am waiting until I actually play it before doing an Amazon review, but I do know I'll rate it 1 star for the DRM issue.
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:41 am
by GORDON
Leisher wrote:With consoles, if you want to try it you have to buy it first (or rent/borrow/etc)... either way, the publishers are doing much better.
I've heard it said that if game makers had their way, renting games would not be an option.
They already took it to court, and lost. Same with the used-game market... this DRM, by extension, is a continuation of that fight. Would you buy a PC game at a garage sale knowing it had a 3-install-limit DRM scheme?
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:54 am
by Leisher
They already took it to court, and lost. Same with the used-game market... this DRM, by extension, is a continuation of that fight. Would you buy a PC game at a garage sale knowing it had a 3-install-limit DRM scheme?
How long before someone sues them for this tactic as well?
Is it true that the DRM on this game:
1. Runs on your PC in the background?
2. You must call a number that isn't toll free to get your game "turned back on" if you install more than 3 times?
3. A few reviews mention that their multiple user IDs cannot play the game. Is this true? If so, there's an interesting concept...a game that doesn't allow multiple family members to play it under different accounts.
A person at Amazon makes a great point about the negative reviews there: "These aren't angry pirates! They've already cracked the game and are playing it without having to deal with the DRM."
Edited By Leisher on 1220975828
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:04 pm
by TPRJones
Leisher wrote:Is it true that the DRM on this game:
1. Runs on your PC in the background?
2. You must call a number that isn't toll free to get your game "turned back on" if you install more than 3 times?
3. A few reviews mention that their multiple user IDs cannot play the game. Is this true? If so, there's an interesting concept...a game that doesn't allow multiple family members to play it under different accounts.
I've done some digging around, and the information I've come up with is as follows:
1) Not exactly, at least not as an ongoing process. There is a process running when the game is active watching for certain other programs and authorized to disable them. But once the game is stopped that process is also stopped. Supposedly.
2) You have to call EA customer service, which does have toll free numbers. But not toll free to the whole world. And there have been no promises, they say they'll handle it on a "case-by-case" basis. My guess is that they'll turn it on if you can prove you bought it as a new game from a known company. If you buy it used, or from someone on eBay, or from one of those lesser-known online stores, forget it. They'll figure you are a secondary market purchaser and tell you to go to hell.
3) That is correct, if you want to have different Spore IDs for your family you are supposed to buy multiple copies of the game. In this it is less like a normal game and more like WoW, where each copy of the game = one user account.
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:04 pm
by TheCatt
TPR has a point about the used games, BUT since you can call and get more installs, there is a way around it.
They cannot prevent renting/resell, etc, because US law (and most standardized copyright law internationally) provides for first use rights (may have gotten the term a bit off). But basically, you retain ownership rights over items, even if they are copyrighted, meaning you can: resell, rent, destroy, etc. to your heart's content.
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:11 pm
by WSGrundy
Leisher wrote:I've heard it said that if game makers had their way, renting games would not be an option.
Sony floated the idea of tying each game to the first console it is played in and not allowing it on any other system.
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:45 pm
by TPRJones
TheCatt wrote:They cannot prevent renting/resell, etc, because US law (and most standardized copyright law internationally) provides for first use rights (may have gotten the term a bit off). But basically, you retain ownership rights over items, even if they are copyrighted, meaning you can: resell, rent, destroy, etc. to your heart's content.
I expect they will deny secondary market participants extra installations until such time as a court has ordered them to allow it.
So, who wants to be the test case and sue EA?
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:40 pm
by TheCatt
I do not expect that.
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:11 pm
by Malcolm
Fuck E.A. This shit is bordering on unreasonable.
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:07 pm
by TPRJones
bordering?
In my opinion, they left unreasonable several exits back.
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:38 pm
by TheCatt
So... anyone have ideas what they should do to combat piracy?
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:02 pm
by Malcolm
TheCatt wrote:So... anyone have ideas what they should do to combat piracy?
Until the day when a readable, uncopiable media comes into play, the best defense is not pissing off your client base & not having them hate you.
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:04 pm
by GORDON
TheCatt wrote:So... anyone have ideas what they should do to combat piracy?
Stop trying, because it is an unwinnable war.
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:39 pm
by TPRJones
Copyright in the digital age is completely unenforcable without the willing participation of the public. Extreme good will is the only potentially reliable option at this point. You have to make them want to pay you because the like and respect you.
At least until someone has a flash of genius.
The only other option that I see is to just stop selling software and rent it as a service. This is the more likely short-term solution. All games will be online service, like MMOGs are now. But even then people will steal the client and backwards engineer their own servers if you piss them off enough.
Edited By TPRJones on 1221010869
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:47 am
by TheCatt
If I were them, I'd say fuck PC gamers, and just make console games.
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:48 am
by GORDON
TheCatt wrote:If I were them, I'd say fuck PC gamers, and just make console games.
And then someone else would step in and fill the pc game niche. I have no problem if EA stops making PC games. I actually hope it happens.
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:21 am
by Leisher
If I were them, I'd say fuck PC gamers, and just make console games.
Again, console games are just as vulnerable.
I know it sounds really stupid, but the suggestion of good will isn't a bad idea. Valve and Blizzard are doing tremendous business and their customer relations are about as good as it gets.
I mean look at EA's track record:
-Bought out Bullfrog
-Bought out Westwood
-Bought out Origin
(I mention those because they were enormously popular in a time when PC Gaming was just starting up and they held the rights to many successful and popular series.)
-Ended and/or destroyed most of those popular series.
-Releases yearly updates to its sports franchises that include extremely little in the way of new content and rarely shows any improvement in gameplay for full price.
-Is the company that started the trend of buying the exclusive rights to a sports league's teams and players. They did this because they couldn't compete with the cheaper and superior product being made by competitors.
-Is the company trying to push the concept of "ala carte" for gaming. Essentially, they want to withhold content from full priced video games, then sell customers the additional content at an additional cost. Not as a full package either, but piece by piece. So, for example, a war game would mean each additional weapon would be an extra cost.
-Canceled many anticipated titles either being developed in house or at a company they purchased.
-Have released quite a few buggy games that were not only unplayable, but a couple that would actually damage customers' PCs.
-The Orange Box fiasco.
That's just a few examples, and I'm not shooting down their attempts to make a profit (rah rah capitalism), but for fuck's sake, you'd think someone at the company would have a clue that constantly treating your consumers like shit might generate a negative backlash.
Oh, and just a little FYI, before we completely discount online distribution systems like Steam, know that it's already been discussed that consoles are going to move to online distribution for their games as well. This system has been discussed as both an alternative and PRIMARY distribution method.