Post-Corona Economy

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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:41 pm Thus, I'll hit this one. I don't disagree with you about minimum wage needing to increase, but the effect it will have. I believe it will crush small businesses, particularly the restaurant industry, and costs will be passed off to consumers further driving up the COL.
No.

Will it increases prices somewhat? Sure. But, there will also be millions of consumers who can now afford that shit since they're being paid better. Net-Net, big improvement, and fewer people on the government tit.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

Why only somewhat? Wouldn't it increase prices by at least the increased cost of labor? Or do you live in a world where businesses routinely absorb higher costs for their customers?

It will increase the cost of anything that is made/handled by people who were paid minimum wage. It would also contribute to inflation. If you increase the supply of money, it's value goes down. But then I guess it could be offset by the increased price of goods/service affected by the wage increase. . So, people will have more money, but it will buy less. Progress!
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It's all a moot point.

This week I saw a robot janitor go into a restroom, clean the floors and toilet, and restock TP. Soon nobody will have a job and nobody will be able to afford anything anyway.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
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Cakedaddy wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:34 pm Why only somewhat? Wouldn't it increase prices by at least the increased cost of labor? Or do you live in a world where businesses routinely absorb higher costs for their customers?
Because labor is only part of the composition of prices.
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TheCatt wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:52 am
Cakedaddy wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:34 pm Why only somewhat? Wouldn't it increase prices by at least the increased cost of labor? Or do you live in a world where businesses routinely absorb higher costs for their customers?
Because labor is only part of the composition of prices.
This is true, but as the Covid shortages taught us, it's not just your labor. Your company is the customer for other companies and all of their prices are going up too. So now it's your labor costs going up, but also the costs of raw materials and services.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:44 pm
TheCatt wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:52 am
Cakedaddy wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:34 pm Why only somewhat? Wouldn't it increase prices by at least the increased cost of labor? Or do you live in a world where businesses routinely absorb higher costs for their customers?
Because labor is only part of the composition of prices.
This is true, but as the Covid shortages taught us, it's not just your labor. Your company is the customer for other companies and all of their prices are going up too. So now it's your labor costs going up, but also the costs of raw materials and services.
Duh. But it's still not a huge increase. Yall overthink the # of people making minimum wage and the %age of the good produced that theeir labor costs represent.

But whatever. We can just increase poverty until the revolution.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

Something I noticed during the pandemic when no one wanted to work. McDonald's had to increase the amount they paid people, so they would come to work. Low and behold, the price of my combo went up. I would call it 'way up'. I kind of figured the cost of that labor had something to do with it.

I have also noticed that they are paying less again, but the cost of my combo is still high. So, that's awesome.
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TheCatt wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:33 am Duh. But it's still not a huge increase. Yall overthink the # of people making minimum wage and the %age of the good produced that theeir labor costs represent.
You underestimate corporate greed.
Cakedaddy wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:00 pm I have also noticed that they are paying less again, but the cost of my combo is still high. So, that's awesome.
Publicly traded corporations don't raise prices in a X=X way. If labor costs went up 3%, they're going to raise prices 10% and claim it's because of the higher labor costs. Got to make Wall St. happy and you don't do that without growth.

Also, if labor costs weren't such a big deal, why the hell would companies spend millions upon millions trying to automate the most basic jobs? Why does outsourcing exist?

(Speaking of, there are Roomba cousins out mowing lawns and picking up balls at the driving range now.)

Additionally, while you're appeasing people making minimum wage, you're pissing off people who weren't making minimum wage who now think they're grossly underpaid. Don't underestimate their anger and what they might choose to do about it. It won't come immediately, but

I say all this, while being in favor of minimum wage being increased. Why? Because it hasn't moved in forever. It and almost all salaries have not grown at the same pace as corporate profits. C Suite executives being the exception.

I'm just far more skeptical that there won't be consequences.
TheCatt wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:33 am But whatever. We can just increase poverty until the revolution.
Will people still have cell phones and a billion things to focus on other than the government? Then they won't revolt. They'll vote themselves into Socialism or Communism first because they're fucking stupid.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
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Post by GORDON »

I said a long time ago that Xbox and legal weed were both designed to give peeps something to do besides building guillotines.
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Post by Leisher »

"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
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Post by GORDON »

Capital-D.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

I'd be interested in knowing what sector those businesses belong to. I'm guessing they will mostly be small businesses, and many of them will be new businesses (started just before the pandemic). As hard as the pandemic was on small businesses, it was also a boon. They got a TON of free money from the government. Lots of support. And I would bet many of them interpreted the free money incorrectly and just thought they were great business owners making a huge profit. So, they spent the money, and borrowed, like the free money was never going to end. Now that it is, they aren't doing so well. There are still active programs covering many of the costs of running a business. But each year, the amount of support dwindles back to normal.

For me, I have no idea what programs are available, or what they do. I just do business as usual and my accountant surprises me each year with news like "you don't have to pay any more quarterly taxes this year. 'This' program makes you eligible for 'stuff' and at this point, you'll see a refund of 'x'". So, rather than count on the free money, it's a surprise to me. And THEN I blow it. :-) Just kidding, I don't blow it. No, really. . .

Also, PPP money came in a lump sum. And the undisciplined would see all this cash sitting in their account and find ways to blow it, or think that they are awesome and can expand/borrow faster than they should.
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Post by Leisher »

This is absolutely sustainable.

Seems like this should be a big news story. Maybe if the debt identified itself as something else it'd get more coverage?

Image
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
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Post by GORDON »

The debt is identifying as a great economy under Democrats.
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Post by Leisher »

"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
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Post by GORDON »

Can I get some of that money?
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Post by Cakedaddy »

Leisher wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:22 pm Toys R Us attempting a comeback.
They have been in Macy's stores for at least a couple years. At first, I thought Macy's bought Toys R Us. But they are just leasing the space inside of Macy's. It's rather pathetic though. It's NOT a toy store. It's similar to the toys section at Target.
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Post by GORDON »

I just heard that 70k child care facilities are going to close next year due to government subsidies from covid lockdown ending.

6 years to normality.
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Post by Leisher »

Markets dip on news of "shockingly" large jobs growth.

1. The Fed is unhappy about this because this apparently says inflation is not cooling. (Catt?)
2. Wages aren't growing:
Average hourly earnings rose by 0.2% in September, bringing the annual gain to 4.2%, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics' jobs report released Friday.

That lands below economists' expectations for a monthly uptick of 0.3% and annual increase of 4.3%, according to Refinitiv.

September's wage growth is the lowest seen monthly since February 2022 and year-over-year since June 2021, noted Andrew Patterson, Vanguard senior economist.
Jamie Dimon says 7% interest rates and recession.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
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