Welcome to Thunderdome

Leisher wrote: At what point does it go from diversity to brainwashing and propaganda?

I think that exit was some ways back.

I'm not sure it makes sense to prevent kids from smoking or drinking or getting tattoos or having sex with adults if we're going to let them decide to take hormone altering drugs as they're developing.

And at what point is it representation? It's a reflection of people, imho

TheCatt wrote: And at what point is it representation? It's a reflection of people, imho

At the point they can do it without all the fanfare directed at the woke adult crowd. I predict they will sell decently around Christmas as woke aunts and uncles by them as gifts, then they'll end up in the clearance bin. Then a smaller release next season, then they quietly become collectors items.

There's a reason there are no Disney Princesses that look like a female grunge front man from a Seattle garage band.

I'm not sure which marketing class you took where people don't have New Product Introductions, but I doubt it was a good one.

Oh snap. An appeal to credentials.

And the counter is......?

TheCatt wrote: And at what point is it representation? It's a reflection of people, imho

Sure, and I never implied it wasn't, but who is the market?

Barbie can't sell black Barbies, and black people are 12% of the population. I would wager sexually ambiguous people are a far smaller proportion. So who is the market, and how is this a good business move?

I would guess it's more about PR and keeping their brand relevant than them expecting big sales numbers.

Leisher wrote: but who is the market?

The people it represents.

Leisher wrote: I would wager sexually ambiguous people are a far smaller proportion.

They are

Leisher wrote: So who is the market, and how is this a good business move?

Those who feel represented, and about messaging to those who feel this is important.

Leisher wrote: I would guess it's more about PR and keeping their brand relevant than them expecting big sales numbers.

Which, goes back to what kind of business move it is, answering your own question.

TheCatt wrote: The people it represents.

Oh, so you're saying their market is for adults?

TheCatt wrote: Those who feel represented, and about messaging to those who feel this is important.

Are you seriously saying profit wasn't the motivating factor here, because that's not good business.

TheCatt wrote: Which, goes back to what kind of business move it is, answering your own question.

Yes, that's what I was doing.

Leisher wrote: Oh, so you're saying their market is for adults?

1) How many young children buy their own toys? That being said, some number of kids have gender identity issues, at whatever ages. I would guess some # of them are pre-puberty and would like to see this.

Leisher wrote: Are you seriously saying profit wasn't the motivating factor here, because that's not good business.

Everything is about profit. Messaging included.

TheCatt wrote: 1) How many young children buy their own toys?

And that's why my original question about the line between product and brainwashing comes in.

TheCatt wrote: Everything is about profit. Messaging included.

Oh, I agree, but is this percentage of the market worth it? That was my point.

Leisher wrote: Oh, I agree, but is this percentage of the market worth it? That was my point.

It's the ~20% of the US that's progressive enough to think it should happen. Not the 1% (or less) with gender identity situations.

TheCatt wrote: I'm not sure which marketing class you took where people don't have New Product Introductions, but I doubt it was a good one.

Ask the folks that marketed "New Coke".

TheCatt wrote:It's the ~20% of the US that's progressive enough to think it should happen. Not the 1% (or less) with gender identity situations.

But do you think 20% of the target market (the little girls that generally dream of being a glamorous model or princess) are progressive enough to want it?

"What did you get for Christmas?"

"The Six Million Dollar Man doll! With the repair station rocket! What'd you get?"

"... the oscar goldman doll..."

"Bummer..."

"No... it's really cool... he's got an exploding briefcase..."

Vince wrote:

TheCatt wrote: I'm not sure which marketing class you took where people don't have New Product Introductions, but I doubt it was a good one.

Ask the folks that marketed "New Coke".

No one's replacing Barbie...

Vince wrote: But do you think 20% of the target market (the little girls that generally dream of being a glamorous model or princess) are progressive enough to want it?

I wonder how many girls still want that kind of stuff? It's much less popular than it used to be, certainly. But even Barbie needs friends.

TheCatt wrote: I wonder how many girls still want that kind of stuff? It's much less popular than it used to be, certainly. But even Barbie needs friends.

And that's where I was going with this. Are the little girls asking for these dolls or are they being given them by parents trying to force their kid into tolerance?

I really have zero issue with the dolls existing. I just wonder if it was about making money or pushing an agenda.

Leisher wrote: I just wonder if it was about making money or pushing an agenda.

It's always about money. And, is a social agenda of acceptance a bad thing? I feel like we should be more suspicious of the people trying to shovel shit food into our children's mouths.

TheCatt wrote:

Leisher wrote: I just wonder if it was about making money or pushing an agenda.

And, is a social agenda of acceptance a bad thing? I feel like we should be more suspicious of the people trying to shovel shit food into our children's mouths.

It's not a social agenda of acceptance. It's an agenda of compliance. You will be made to care. If Leisher and I made our views on Twitter, we'd have people insisting we lose our jobs.

TheCatt wrote: I wonder how many girls still want that kind of stuff? It's much less popular than it used to be, certainly. But even Barbie needs friends.

Barbie sales had been down, but recently started to climb again. Like everyone else, the little girls seem to be trending towards electronics.

And Barbie always had the friends. Now she'll have the girls in her class she can mock and shun with Dusty.

TheCatt wrote: And, is a social agenda of acceptance a bad thing?

Yes, it absolutely can be. Go ask the girls who can no longer compete in their sports because trans girls are dominating them.

Vince wrote: If Leisher and I made our views on Twitter, we'd have people insisting we lose our jobs.

This and I'm not even saying anything negative about the dolls. They just seem like something a woke parent would buy for their kid instead of a kid picking out on their own.

Again, I have no issue with the dolls existing and being marketed if Barbie wants to go that route. Everyone SHOULD be represented. I just wondered about motive because I didn't see this turning their stock around.

"Message: We Care."

~Omni Consumer Products