Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:08 pm
Page 271 of 434
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:17 pm
"He promises me I'll be safe as housesTheCatt wrote:
as long as I remember who's wearing the trousers."
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:47 pm
I would not have expected you to bust out with the Depeche Mode...
I was having this debate with a religious coworker. Basically, God made people who they are, and allowed them to sin, but faults them for sinning?
Him: Yes, he doesn't want robots, he wants people to be able to choose.
Me: Why? Why let them fail and then punish them?
Him: Because that's what he wants.
(later, without religious guy around, to other co-workers)
Me: Sounds like kinda a dick move, right?
I was having this debate with a religious coworker. Basically, God made people who they are, and allowed them to sin, but faults them for sinning?
Him: Yes, he doesn't want robots, he wants people to be able to choose.
Me: Why? Why let them fail and then punish them?
Him: Because that's what he wants.
(later, without religious guy around, to other co-workers)
Me: Sounds like kinda a dick move, right?
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:55 pm
All a religious person needs to say to win his own point of view is 1. Free will, and 2. Faith.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:00 pm
There are some religious folks that have a more subtle belief system, but the majority seem to fall into a category best described as having an abusive relationship with their higher power. And like so many battered wives they just keep going back for more.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:24 pm
You (G, TPR, catt, anyone not terribly religious) should all check Jung's take on monotheistic religions and Joseph Campbell's work on mythical archetypes. They do a damn fine job of explaining all the "mystery" every religion has to invent and why people are so apt to react to it in a needy way.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:01 am
You guys all see the girl dancing right?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:09 am
Proof that god loves men more.Leisher wrote:You guys all see the girl dancing right?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:22 am
Yeah, I remember that from high school.Malcolm wrote:You (G, TPR, catt, anyone not terribly religious) should all check Jung's take on monotheistic religions and Joseph Campbell's work on mythical archetypes. They do a damn fine job of explaining all the "mystery" every religion has to invent and why people are so apt to react to it in a needy way.
Like TPR says, though, I just don't get it. It doesn't compute. I don't see how it does compute for so many.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:15 am
I was just pointing out that I posted PERFECTION and you three gentlemen instead commented on a cartoon of two guys.GORDON wrote:Proof that god loves men more.Leisher wrote:You guys all see the girl dancing right?
Not that there's anything wrong with that...
I just don't want the thread littered with religious debate when this thread should be dedicated to making us laugh and horny. Of course, that being said...
Like TPR says, though, I just don't get it. It doesn't compute. I don't see how it does compute for so many.
First of all, you guys have me cracking up legit because this conversation is SO stereo-typically atheist.
Onto the picture, I don't think it's completely accurate. (At this point, let me remind folks that I'm agnostic.) Clearly that cartoon is drawn by an atheist, and thus, is biased.
I think the real message religion brings is that God created man in his image, but gave man free will (and none of his powers...or did he? That's another debate.). He then allowed man to make his own mistakes, but told him that He'll still love and accept him as long as he owns up to those mistakes.
Translated: Listen, you're human and so you're going to fuck up. Just don't be an asshole about it. Realize that you make mistakes, own up to them, and try not to be too shitty to other people. If you can live your life that way, you're in the club. If you're just a dick, then you're out.
I get how people can buy into that message. God sending it makes it more credible. I know that sounds odd to people who think God is a fairy tale, especially coming from an agnostic, but I hope you get my point.
As atheists take that message and apply it to your parenting. Same shit. You created those little booger gobblers and they're in your image. You help them develop into who they are and then send them out to make their own mistakes and live their life. All the while, there are you supporting and accepting them. Again, same shit.
So the message is easy to understand. The supreme being part is what's throwing you guys off, and I get that.
End of the day, can we all agree that girl is incredible?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:20 am
Translated: I had the ability to make your life perfect, but I didn't, because I want you to resist the temptations I created. And if you don't, fuck you, because I am your master.Leisher wrote:Translated: Listen, you're human and so you're going to fuck up. Just don't be an asshole about it. Realize that you make mistakes, own up to them, and try not to be too shitty to other people. If you can live your life that way, you're in the club. If you're just a dick, then you're out.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:40 pm
Long story short, let's say there is a plan. Let's say it's EXACTLY as the cartoon describes. Why do you assume that your wisdom and knowledge is equal to God's, and thus, your questioning of it is correct?TheCatt wrote:Translated: I had the ability to make your life perfect, but I didn't, because I want you to resist the temptations I created. And if you don't, fuck you, because I am your master.Leisher wrote:Translated: Listen, you're human and so you're going to fuck up. Just don't be an asshole about it. Realize that you make mistakes, own up to them, and try not to be too shitty to other people. If you can live your life that way, you're in the club. If you're just a dick, then you're out.
Perhaps that's the whole point of it...
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:46 pm
So he made us peons cuz he needs to be worshiped by lesser beings?Leisher wrote:Long story short, let's say there is a plan. Let's say it's EXACTLY as the cartoon describes. Why do you assume that your wisdom and knowledge is equal to God's, and thus, your questioning of it is correct?TheCatt wrote:Translated: I had the ability to make your life perfect, but I didn't, because I want you to resist the temptations I created. And if you don't, fuck you, because I am your master.Leisher wrote:Translated: Listen, you're human and so you're going to fuck up. Just don't be an asshole about it. Realize that you make mistakes, own up to them, and try not to be too shitty to other people. If you can live your life that way, you're in the club. If you're just a dick, then you're out.
Perhaps that's the whole point of it...
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:09 pm
Perhaps. Perhaps not.TheCatt wrote:So he made us peons cuz he needs to be worshiped by lesser beings?Leisher wrote:Long story short, let's say there is a plan. Let's say it's EXACTLY as the cartoon describes. Why do you assume that your wisdom and knowledge is equal to God's, and thus, your questioning of it is correct?TheCatt wrote: Translated: I had the ability to make your life perfect, but I didn't, because I want you to resist the temptations I created. And if you don't, fuck you, because I am your master.
Perhaps that's the whole point of it...
I know that you're making assumptions. I mean, how'd we get labeled as peons? Why do you assume we are lesser beings?
Perhaps it's a path to replacing him. After all, the wisest leaders are not gifted their position, but rather, they work their way to it.
My point is that we don't definitively know. If God actually came down from heaven and explained why he did what he did, we assume we could understand, but could we? Isn't that an assumption about our own intelligence? It's that as arrogant an assumption as those who think we're the center of the universe and the most intelligent beings within it?
And again, let me point out that I'm the agnostic. I'm just Marvel No Prizing this thing for fun. So if I'm doing the religious folks a disservice, I apologize.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:36 pm
Leisher, I'm by no stretch super religious, but I believe and I think you did fine. I was thinking of jumping into this with the whole "motives match those of parents", but you did it admirably.
Personally, I think we can understand the thought process of an omnipotent mind about as well as an omnipotent mind can understand ours. That was always my sticking point with Christianity for a long time. I never understood how God sending His son down and our killing him got the slate wiped clean for us. I think it was because both sides learned from that. Jesus had the worst shit thrown at him that humans throw at each other. He was tortured to death. He was tempted. He got hungry and thirsty and for the first time an omnipotent being knew human limitations. I think this allowed God to understand, "this being human thing kind of sucks and is hard."
On the flip side, even with all those temptations and weaknesses of being human, Jesus lived without sin. That was God telling us, "It CAN be done."
Doesn't go back to why it all started for Him doing it the way it did, but until Jesus came I don't think there's likely a point of commonality that would make it understandable.
But that's how I approach it. If I'm wrong, I've lived a life I'm not ashamed of. If I'm right... well, I'll miss you guys :p
Personally, I think we can understand the thought process of an omnipotent mind about as well as an omnipotent mind can understand ours. That was always my sticking point with Christianity for a long time. I never understood how God sending His son down and our killing him got the slate wiped clean for us. I think it was because both sides learned from that. Jesus had the worst shit thrown at him that humans throw at each other. He was tortured to death. He was tempted. He got hungry and thirsty and for the first time an omnipotent being knew human limitations. I think this allowed God to understand, "this being human thing kind of sucks and is hard."
On the flip side, even with all those temptations and weaknesses of being human, Jesus lived without sin. That was God telling us, "It CAN be done."
Doesn't go back to why it all started for Him doing it the way it did, but until Jesus came I don't think there's likely a point of commonality that would make it understandable.
But that's how I approach it. If I'm wrong, I've lived a life I'm not ashamed of. If I'm right... well, I'll miss you guys :p
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:21 pm
For the record everyone here is an atheist. I think everyone is atheist about Buddah and Ganesha and Amaterasu and Zeus and Osiris, and pretty sure everyone is atheist about Alla. Some of us just go one god further.
Yes. Ain't evolution grand?
can we all agree that girl is incredible?
Yes. Ain't evolution grand?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:03 pm
I think everyone is atheist about Zeus.
And now I have to kill you.
Yes. Ain't evolution grand?
Ha! Her parents did well.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:09 pm
All I can think is that she has about 3 years before those big ol' boobies begin to be noticeably droopy and kinda gross, so she and I should enjoy them while we can.
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:06 am
Point
Counterpoint
