NBA

[TheCatt]

McAdoo plays for the Warriors, too?!?! GO GSW!

[Malcolm]

Warriors in 5.

I'm liking my odds.

[TheCatt]

[Leisher]

Warriors in 5.

I'm liking my odds.

With Green out, game 5 just got a lot more interesting.

I could see the Cavs winning the next two, but winning that third one? Not so much...

[Malcolm]

GSW lost 2 games at home this season. No fucking way they drop a chance to clinch there.

[Leisher]

Like the Penguins clinched at home? Or the Thunder? Green being out completely changes that team. If you remember, he faced a possible suspension against OKC and everyone said it'd be the end of their season. You're putting way too much faith in "I disappear in big games" Curry and "I'm unstoppable once every four games" Thompson.

Curry showed up for the first time ever in a finals game in game 4 (check the stats, the unanimous MVP has been all but invisible the entire playoffs). I don't know if he can do that in back to back games. With Green in, I would have expected a good game for a half before the Cavs stopped trying. With Green out, I have a feeling the Cavs might lead into halftime.

Of course, it all depends on Tyrone Lue getting them to stop playing iso and whether or not they all show up to play.

By the way, if the Cavs lose this series, all the blame will fall on Love and Irving. Everyone will throw them both under the bus. Love can't play defense and his offense sucked at times. Kyrie can't play defense and his offense sucked at times, plus he's a one that doesn't distribute. Fair points, but I'll blame who should really get the blame: LeBron James.

He's the one who forced this roster. He's the one who forced Blatt out and made sure Lue would be the replacement. He's the first one to start playing iso ball, which is Cleveland's way of giving up. He's also the guy who passive aggressively attacks his teammates, and dare I say, is the first to quit during games when adversity appears.

LeBron is a bad leader. I think the reasons he won in Miami was Wade and Riley. Riley wouldn't let LeBron dictate the roster and Wade was the leader on the court.

Would you want to sign with a LeBron team knowing if things go bad he and the MSM are going to blame you?

Remember, LeBron is 2-4 in the finals and would be 1-5 if Ray Allen hadn't hit a miracle three.

If the Cavs lose this series, I think LeBron should look in the mirror before he starts forcing kneejerk reactions. That team really needs a leader. Either a player who even LeBron will listen to or a coach with enough clout to get LeBron to submit to his way.

[Malcolm]

Green being out completely changes that team. If you remember, he faced a possible suspension against OKC and everyone said it'd be the end of their season.

Hah. The Cavs ain't no Thunder. Even if they were, OKC is at home watching TV.

[Leisher]

I still can't figure out how they lost that series.

[Leisher]

Look at Steph once again keeping his team in a game...oh wait, that's Klay Thompson doing it again. Steph hasn't really done that in the playoffs (this year or last).

MVP my ass.

[Malcolm]

Regular season MVP. 400+ 3-pointers. GS just sucked up another injury to one of their tall mofos. The momentum is shifting away if the Warriors don't hit some fucking baskets.

[Malcolm]

Ah well. This just means GS wins it in front of Cleveland's crowd instead of their own. The Cali fans miss out while the Cleveland ones get burned in person. I can live with that.

[Leisher]

Regular season MVP. 400+ 3-pointers.

Unanimous MVP. First time in history because apparently Stephen Curry is a better basketball player than Wilt Chamberlin, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Kareem, Dr J, Michael Jordan, etc.

The truth is the media just fell in love with his scoring. It's honestly a microcosm of what's wrong with sports fans these days. People are too wrapped up in scoring, and don't care about defense or fundamentals anymore.

The guy is a GREAT shooter from beyond the arc. The best ever...maybe...I'm not sure you can call him the best ever until he's done it for more than two years. Best run ever for certain.

However, that's all he gives you. He's an average defender. He's not a rebounder. He's not a huge distributor. He's also not clutch. His career playoff numbers are less than impressive.

Ah well. This just means GS wins it in front of Cleveland's crowd instead of their own. The Cali fans miss out while the Cleveland ones get burned in person.

I think there's a game 7.

[TheCatt]

People are too wrapped up in scoring,

You know how to win sports-ball games? Score more points than the other person.

[Leisher]

People are too wrapped up in scoring,

You know how to win sports-ball games? Score more points than the other person.

Made easier by not allowing the other team to score. As we've seen time and time again, defense wins the majority of championships.

Big Ben won two Super Bowls despite terrible/average performances. Dallas beat the Steelers in 1995 despite the Steelers completely shutting them down because two Larry Brown interceptions decided that game. The "Greatest Show on Turf" lost by a yard. The Patriots won their last Super Bowl thanks to a well scouted defensive play. Peyton Manning retired a Super Bowl champ because of his defense. The Pittsburgh Penguins just won their fourth Stanley Cup by holding the Sharks to 2 shots on goal in the third period of game six. During the NBA playoffs year after year, what's the #1 thing that is constantly stressed to being key to whomever wins the crown? Defense. Ask Oregon if a great offense makes up for not playing defense. What's the knock on Kyrie? He doesn't play defense. What's the knock on Love? He doesn't play defense.

The thing about being an average defender and a long range shooter is that you get into trouble when those long range shots don't fall and your opponent has an easy time making higher percentage shots.

By the way, without the league's best scorer and "MVP", how did the Warriors manage to win playoff games convincingly?

Weird how Cleveland routed them at home last night with their two superstars who like to drive to the rim going off. I guess Curry was out last night? Oh no, wait, Green was out, and then Bogut went out. The two guys who are the key to their defense.

Weird how the league MVP isn't the MVP of his own team.

Two times in NBA history the league MVP has gone on to win the championship and not been named the MVP of that series. Kareem was one. The other was Curry last year. Unless Curry puts up 60 in game 6 or 7, he won't win the Finals MVP again.

I'm not saying Curry isn't awesome, just that maybe the award he won shouldn't be called "MVP". (And it certainly shouldn't have been unanimous.)

[TheCatt]

People are too wrapped up in scoring,

You know how to win sports-ball games? Score more points than the other person.

Made easier by not allowing the other team to score. As we've seen time and time again, defense wins the majority of championships.

You are wrong

[Leisher]

You know how to win sports-ball games? Score more points than the other person.

Made easier by not allowing the other team to score. As we've seen time and time again, defense wins the majority of championships.

You are wrong

Actually, you should have said "We're both wrong" based on that link, but you wanted "to win" so you couldn't. That goes into my belief about what you linked...Stats can be molded to match a narrative you want to tell.

Here's a counter with actual examples of defense winning championships.

The one thing missing from their argument and yours is example of great offenses winning without a defense.

Off the top of my head I'm really struggling to think of any examples where teams with a great offense and no or a below average defense won titles. I can think of teams with great offenses and average defenses or great defenses, but not with bad defenses. However, I can think of teams with great defenses and virtually no offense have won titles.

My favorite teams had great defenses and terrible offenses recently that won them championships:
2002 Ohio State Buckeyes - Possibly the best defense in NCAA history to go along with a dreadful offense.
2005 Pittsburgh Steelers - Big Ben was horrific in that Super Bowl, and frankly, the entire second half of the season. That defense was amazing though.

Back to the NBA...
Screaming Kevin Love memes.
This hurts just to watch.

That last link gives me mixed feelings. Love is LeBron's scapegoat even though he's the one that should be taking all the blame for Cleveland's failures. So it pisses me off to see LeBron kill him like that. However, I respect the shit out of LeBron's competitiveness that even in a celebratory moment he's lecturing Love and trying to get him on the same page.

He should have given him the hi five and then talked to him about whatever he was pointing out.

[Malcolm]

Off the top of my head I'm really struggling to think of any examples where teams with a great offense and no or a below average defense won titles.

1999 Rams NFL championship. They had an average defense at best, and some days it wasn't even that good. They could put up 50 fucking points a game on you, though.

[Leisher]

Off the top of my head I'm really struggling to think of any examples where teams with a great offense and no or a below average defense won titles.

1999 Rams NFL championship. They had an average defense at best, and some days it wasn't even that good. They could put up 50 fucking points a game on you, though.

To quote Catt, "you're wrong".

[Malcolm]

Bah. They mentioned some individual dudes in there. Overall, the defense was average.

Though the defense still doesn't get the credit it might deserve 15 years later, there is no denying the Rams wouldn't have even gone to Super Bowl XXXIV, let alone win it, without a strong defensive performance. When the offense finally struggled against Tampa Bay's stout defense in the NFC Championship Game, it was the Rams' defense that rose to the occasion.

The Rams held Tampa Bay to 203 total yards and came up with two turnovers, five sacks and a safety in leading St. Louis to an 11-6 victory.

Yeah, I recall Tampa's blistering offense that year put up 21 points if they went off and Brad Johnson threw a pass more than 10 yards.

[Leisher]

Bah. They mentioned some individual dudes in there. Overall, the defense was average.

Though the defense still doesn't get the credit it might deserve 15 years later, there is no denying the Rams wouldn't have even gone to Super Bowl XXXIV, let alone win it, without a strong defensive performance. When the offense finally struggled against Tampa Bay's stout defense in the NFC Championship Game, it was the Rams' defense that rose to the occasion.

The Rams held Tampa Bay to 203 total yards and came up with two turnovers, five sacks and a safety in leading St. Louis to an 11-6 victory.

Yeah, I recall Tampa's blistering offense that year put up 21 points if they went off and Brad Johnson threw a pass more than 10 yards.

From the same article:

As the Rams offense burst on to the scene in 1999, the defense made a similar move to rank near the top of the league in most categories. Though the two were simultaneously impressing on a weekly basis, the defense was quietly flying under the radar by offering big plays and shutting down opponents in blowout victories.

So the 1999 Rams aren't a good example. You can't be near the top of defensive categories and be considered below average.