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Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:12 pm**

Malcolm wrote:Lying shows the potential for intelligence that stupidity doesn't.

But what does it matter if you can't trust them? They're more likely to be evil and destroy you for whatever reason.

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:15 pm**

"more likely..."

I like those odds, I've beaten worse. The moron has reached the apex of his abilities, and his uncontrollable honesty is a symptom. Lying is a vital skill and I don't begrudge someone for practicing it. When they do it badly or to my detriment and I find out, then I get annoyed. You talk about deception like it's a 100% negative thing.

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:18 pm**

Malcolm wrote:"more likely..."

I like those odds, I've beaten worse. The moron has reached the apex of his abilities, and his uncontrollable honesty is a symptom. Lying is a vital skill and I don't begrudge someone for practicing it. When they do it badly or to my detriment and I find out, then I get annoyed. You talk about deception like it's a 100% negative thing.

When it comes to the President, it is. It was never in his job description to be the shadiest president in American history, but he's embraced it and is sprinting with it.

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:26 pm**

GORDON wrote:
Malcolm wrote:"more likely..."

I like those odds, I've beaten worse. The moron has reached the apex of his abilities, and his uncontrollable honesty is a symptom. Lying is a vital skill and I don't begrudge someone for practicing it. When they do it badly or to my detriment and I find out, then I get annoyed. You talk about deception like it's a 100% negative thing.
When it comes to the President, it is. It was never in his job description to be the shadiest president in American history, but he's embraced it and is sprinting with it.

Lying is still important, even to the prez. Or perhaps we should tell everyone about all the spying shit we still do to them.

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:31 pm**

Lying is important when you're a sack of shit sociopath. Normal people with an ounce of worth generally don't have to resort to it. Only scumbags do.

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:40 pm**

Yeah, that.

People have different yardsticks for measuring the contents of others' personalities, for me the primary trait I look at is integrity. If you are a lying sack of shit, I don't like you. This eliminates hypocrites, too... which is why I ask, "Moron, or liar?"

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:54 pm**

Vince wrote:Lying is important when you're a sack of shit sociopath. Normal people with an ounce of worth generally don't have to resort to it. Only scumbags do.

Wrong. It's entirely false that only people with something to hide don't tell the whole truth or engage in lying.

Or is everyone who plays poker and bluffs a sociopath? Am I being one when I lie to the dumb-ass DBAs at work so my requests get handled with a minimum of bureaucratic bullshit?

People have different yardsticks for measuring the contents of others' personalities, for me the primary trait I look at is integrity.

Liars can have lots of integrity, depending on the situation at hand.

Edited By Malcolm on 1428519391

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:08 pm**

Malcolm wrote:Wrong. It's entirely false that only people with something to hide don't tell the whole truth or engage in lying.

One of the most defective personalities I've ever known actually lied most when there was no reason to do so. He was a person of low character. A pathological liar with a bad drug habit.

Or is everyone who plays poker and bluffs a sociopath?

I don't lie when I play poker and I bluff. Acting a particular way and letting the person observing you draw their own conclusions is a different beast than lying.

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:23 pm**

Acting a particular way and letting the person observing you draw their own conclusions is a different beast than lying.

You need a microscope to split that hair any further. So only verbal lies count?

One of the most defective personalities I've ever known actually lied most when there was no reason to do so. He was a person of low character. A pathological liar with a bad drug habit.

One shitty example does not a rule make. I'm sure there are some assholes who are honest, too. A human without the ability to deceive is psychologically defenseless.

Edited By Malcolm on 1428524651

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:50 pm**

Malcolm wrote:Using his kid as fodder.
President Obama told ABC’s “Good Morning America” that global warming gave his daughter, Malia, asthma when she was a toddler.

Someone tweeted, "Hey Obama, you know what really DOES cause asthma? Living with a father who smokes."

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:22 pm**

Malcolm wrote:
Acting a particular way and letting the person observing you draw their own conclusions is a different beast than lying.
You need a microscope to split that hair any further. So only verbal lies count?

Okay, let me try a different approach on this. If you kick someone in the chest during a boxing match, that's a dick move. In a martial arts match it's to be expected. If in regular life you try to bankrupt people for sport, that's a dick move. If you're playing Monopoly, it's kind of expected.

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:38 pm**

So ... lying depends on the context of things? As long as it's built into the rules, it's cool? I bet you give Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny a free pass, too.

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:39 pm**

If in regular life you try to bankrupt people for sport, that's a dick move.

Hypothetically, what if the people being bankrupted are douchebags paying cash to the families of suicide bombers?

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:41 pm**

Hypothetically, if $100 bills shot out my ass I'd have lots more friends and put up with a lot less bullshit.

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:17 pm**

Vince wrote:Hypothetically, if $100 bills shot out my ass I'd have lots more friends and put up with a lot less bullshit.

You're not answering the question.

If I found a way to bankrupt people like that in court and then started doing that, am I a dick? My scenario is a lot more realistic than yours.

Let's pick something more contemporary. Is the protagonist from Dexter a dick? He's a serial killer that hides from the law.

All those guys who've been shot for giving info the enemy during war, I guess sociopaths executed them. All the spies we've had that have been double agents for us, I suppose they're sociopaths, too. They lie for a living. And undercover cops.

Edited By Malcolm on 1428535144

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:43 pm**

Is it lying if it is your job?

Oh snap, I just excused the entire government.

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:51 pm**

GORDON wrote:Is it lying if it is your job?

Oh snap, I just excused the entire government.

Lies are a tool. Just like guns.

Posted: **Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:20 pm**

That Iran deal sounds awesome.

Iran’s supreme leader declared on Thursday that all economic sanctions would have to be lifted on the day any nuclear agreement is signed and that military sites would be strictly off limits to foreign inspectors.

I can see the first inspection.

"So you've got one, two ... two non-military sites, and the other 90% are military, I guess?"

Posted: **Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:32 pm**

Perhaps the only thing Obama and I agree on.

Edited By Malcolm on 1428600763

Posted: **Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:04 pm**

Malcolm wrote:That Iran deal sounds awesome.
Iran’s supreme leader declared on Thursday that all economic sanctions would have to be lifted on the day any nuclear agreement is signed and that military sites would be strictly off limits to foreign inspectors.
I can see the first inspection.

"So you've got one, two ... two non-military sites, and the other 90% are military, I guess?"

FRANCE walked away from the negotiating table. That deal was probably rock solid.

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