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Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:56 am
by Leisher
TheCatt wrote:This game is fun, but I'm not sure what mix of options would make it most fun:
* Sleepers / Non-sleepers - I like the security of non-sleepers, but it also feels kind lame. On the other hand, I probably wont be playing more than a few hours a week
* PvP / Non-PvP - I don't get the point of having no PvE. But man it sucks restarting so many times.
* Oxidize - I think these are the mods like /location, etc. Until I can make a compass in this game, I want this.
* People - Enough to make it fun, not so much that you can't move without dying. 20-40?
* Fall Damage - I like the realism of true.
* Crafiting Time - Instant and shorter times have their benefits, but time makes it more realistic. Undecided.
Personally, I think the perfect server would be:
*Non-Sleepers
-With the caveat of a 5 minute clock until your body disappears. That would stop folks from DCing before you kill them.
*PvP
-The hardest one to balance. The Darkfall server got a bad rap from us because we were raided, and as we escaped got hit by a hacker, which exposed the fact that no admin was on duty. The "reddit" server was stupid because 80-100 people are WAAAAAAAYYYYYYY too many people for that map. Meanwhile, non-PvP servers are pointless because there's no threat. The zombies spawn in the same areas, and the wildlife isn't a real threat once you've played for 5 minutes. PvP is the way to go, but you need to ensure some other things aren't ridiculous like server population, instant crafting, etc.
*Oxidize
-/location is CRITICAL, /starter is nice, /players (or /who) is also important. /share seems to eliminate the door code thing.
*People
-Last night (Sunday) around 11, Troy thought a server with 30 people online would seem right. I disagree. Late on a Sunday night, I think I'd rather see around 15-20 online. I mean, if you're seeing 30 online during off peak hours, how many will be on during peak hours? I'd say this depends on your play style, and I'd compare it to the Darkfall server: We lived in the west, and 50% of the time we went out collecting resources, we'd be murdered and robbed. To me, it was a bit too often. Meanwhile, TPR lived in the east and rarely saw other people despite building a house that was "must see". Still, he'd get PKed and was eventually robbed.
I'd compare the west of Darkfall to be like a server with 40-50 people on during peak hours. It's just too many. It eliminates the crafting, exploration, PvE, and resource collecting elements completely. Seriously, if the whole point is to just PvP and nothing else, I'd rather play Mechwarrior?
I'd compare the east of Darkfall to be like a server with 20-30 people on during peak hours. You can collect resources without fear of being ganked EVERY time, but you will see PvP action.
*Fall Damage
-Meh. I can see arguments for both, but I'd lean towards keeping it. Although, I would increase the area between "fine" and "dead" because the broken leg thing is pretty cool.
*Crafting Time
-Instant sucks. Think about this: You are fighting an enemy and he runs out of ammo. You win! Nope, not here where he instantly crafts 30 more bullets and whatever gun he wants and kills you. I honestly don't even understand why crafting time needs to be reduced at all.
*Non-craftable or limited C4
-C4 seemed to be REALLY plentiful to our enemies on Darkfall (the ones that controlled the west). It also is a game changing item. Get enough and you can immediately destroy your opponents' homes, and steal all their shit. I think if the end goal for Rust is a persistent world, the C4 will eventually need to go. It simply isn't a fair item. The people with numbers or the means to fight people off air drops will have far more access to it. Thus, they win as soon as they discover your home.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:03 am
by TheCatt
The ability to defend needs to be increased. Right now, it's hard. I understand what the game designers were looking for (True pvp, trust-based security, etc). But C4 is too hard... and the whole "admins can spawn air drops" thing makes the friends with admin thing a bitch.
Never seen /starter before, that would be nice.
Agree on non-sleeper with 5 minute clock.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:26 am
by Leisher
The name of the server I use for research:
[US East]BeerGardenRust++/Sleep/Instcraft/PVP/Admins/1-21WIPE
It'd be a good one for folks looking for less hectic PvP play or new to the game. I'm using it simply to figure out home locations, the layout of spawn areas, and to practice everything I can in game (building, shooting, crafting, etc.)
Plus, if it picks up, I'll have established a foothold for us.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:32 am
by Troy
Once we get good (at crafting and pvp) (also directions) I think we can realistically pick a freshly wiped server, we just have to do some shenanigans so we all are in the same valley quickly. Throw some sleeping bags down in a small house and then just zerg the resources until we are set.
Edited By Troy on 1390840403
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:45 am
by GORDON
Some asshole actually gifted me the game. Now it is going to be hard to suffer nobly now that I don't have an excuse to not play it.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:02 pm
by TheCatt
Some ideas for servers I've been seeing:
* Rarer / non-craftable C4
* Part-Time PvP (like weekends only)
I like the Eve Online solution to PvP, personally. Having the protected areas, but having the unprotected areas have all the cool stuff.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:06 pm
by TPRJones
But how would you do safe zones in Rust? Maybe an NPC town with guards?
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:07 pm
by GORDON
Like UO.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:11 pm
by TheCatt
TPRJones wrote:But how would you do safe zones in Rust? Maybe an NPC town with guards?
Don't care how it works 
Maybe weapons cause 0 damage / can't fire / attack if in those zones. (0 damage to prevent people from firing from outside th zone).
You could gate it, but that leads to gate-ganking.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:14 pm
by GORDON
In UO there was a police force within town borders. If you attacked someone enough to do one point of damage, or got caught picking someones pocket, the guards were all over you attacking with mega damage. You had maybe 1% chance of surviving it.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:34 pm
by TheCatt
I thought about making a searchable database of servers, but I'm guessing it already exists. Best I could find was this.
That way you can specify parameters (max person, pvp/pve, craft speed, etc.) and find servers that meet those needs. I guess getting it up and running and getting data would be the most annoying/hardest part.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:44 pm
by Troy
This game has a public dev board. https://trello.com/b/lG8jtz6v/rust-main I see the server list feature is coming soon.
Also here is a cool PvP video of a dude being a badass against groups of other players. The closest thing Cake and I came to this was laying down covering fire as we retreated after recovering loot. (our own)
E: looks like they are eventually going to replace the zombies with... something?
Edited By Troy on 1390848387
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:04 pm
by TPRJones
I thought about making a searchable database of servers, but I'm guessing it already exists.
If you did make something that polled servers and logged them into a database, one cool feature would be a population-over-time deally. Not just maximum population and current population, but max population on in the past day/week.
As to the zombies, I believe they've said all along that they were just placeholders for something else. That it's not really mean to be a zombie horror game, even though that's how it's sort of getting pegged. Given the current climate around zombies in the culture, they'd probably have been better off using a different placeholder if they wanted to avoid that classification.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:14 pm
by TheCatt
Troy wrote:This game has a public dev board.
https://trello.com/b/lG8jtz6v/rust-main I see the server list feature is coming soon.
Also here is a
cool PvP video of a dude being a badass against groups of other players. The closest thing Cake and I came to this was laying down covering fire as we retreated after recovering loot. (our own)
E: looks like they are eventually going to replace the zombies with... something?
The server list is actually mostly done.
favourite servers ✓
server history ✓
modified servers/vanilla servers ✓
order by ping/players ✓
Whitelist servers (using steam groups)
Only whitelist isn't done, so it's not quite what I was thinking.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:20 pm
by Cakedaddy
I like C4 and I like sleepers. If you saw our house on the TX server, you'd know why.
House security comes with height. Every floor you build is 4 more (if place absolutely correctly) C4 charges to get to you. Our current house would take a minimum of 8, I think. When I add another outer wall system, it will be a minimum of 12. At that's just to get to the main 'secure' floor. I'm building 2 more above that. Add to this, don't store a ton of shit. We had a TON of resources on the other server because we were saving up to move. I don't see a reason to have that on the TX server. So even if someone did break in, that would have spent FAR FAR FAR more breaking in than they got from us. So, they'd probably only hit us once.
Sleepers: You can so easily replace what you've lost that I don't see the point of having perfect security like that.
Use the resources you collect immediately. Don't have more than you need. This keeps losses to a minimum.
Server population: The TX server is pretty well balanced. I collected a TON of resources last night, with 20 people on. We also went looking for fights and had them within 5 minutes. Plus, our house is so massive it's starting to draw attention. I disagree with "20 people on a Sunday evening means too many people the rest of the time". We've had no problem building what we have with the current population that I think was 35ish at it's max. And Troy did all the work of establishing the base by himself. Darkfall, I'd get killed 75% of the time collecting resources. TX, about 25%.
I'm not missing /location now that I have a sleeping bag and a home. As I play the game more, I'm learning my way around. Yes, VERY FUCKING SLOWLY!. But I'm learning. F1 + suicide helps too. "I have no idea where I am" suicide. "Oh, this place is much closer to home" But again, with a sleeping bag/bed, this is not so much an issue.
Fall damage = on
PvP = on (and I can't even shoot people yet)
This game doesn't need any type of absolute security.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:33 pm
by TPRJones
I wouldn't want to see homes being built somewhere that is absolutely secure. But I wouldn't mind an isolated NPC town with a "bank" of some sort. Although they charge you a percentage of your deposit to use it, so it's not cheap. And guards so you have somewhere you can hang out a little and relax. But be out of town by nightfall and curfew and the guards turning kos. Something like that.
If nothing else it'd be a nice safe place to broker deals and have peace talks with people you can't trust.
EDIT: For extra bonus, design the town guards so that a large (40+) group of well-armed players working together might actually be able to take out the town. And when all the guards are dead the town is turned into empty ruins with goodie spawns until the next server reset. Gives a little incentive to maybe have some large-scale cooperative play, although mostly that will of course just end in betrayal.
Edited By TPRJones on 1390851508
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:40 pm
by Cakedaddy
I'm reading that houses DO decay.
Wood shacks after 12 hours.
Metal walls after 4 days.
Wood walls after 24 hours.
Multiple story houses decay from the top down.
I see too many small houses with no doors to believe this is true. You open the door to refresh the decay counter.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:45 pm
by TPRJones
When the decay timer goes, does it take out a whole floor or just, like, one wall. Then one post. Etc.
Maybe we should build a test house.
Edited By TPRJones on 1390859157
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:51 pm
by TheCatt
Rust server searchable list.
So I was going to basically do that. And, so I'm not going to.
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:55 pm
by Troy
Bare metal foundation was about 4 days.