League of Legends - Trumped up Rock, Paper, Scissors
Show me one team in LCS right now, that switches roles. Hence the reason you look at their team page, and they list whose top mid bot support jungle. Cause you play one lane, and you learn it really really well, and the champions you'll come to face in said lane. I have no problems switching lanes, but in ranked games I don't understand why we need to, or would really ever want to.
http://www.reignofgaming.net/
lots of cool info on here. New champ Quinn is now out on PBE and looks like she is an ADC, nice to see since i think Draven was the last one released. Definetly a must buy for you AD players.
And it looks like Riot is going to implement an official replay system, which will be nice.
Also i will be playing tonight, i plan on starting early and staying on late to catch up for some lost time. Lets get our first ranked team win tonight!!! It's about time!
lots of cool info on here. New champ Quinn is now out on PBE and looks like she is an ADC, nice to see since i think Draven was the last one released. Definetly a must buy for you AD players.
And it looks like Riot is going to implement an official replay system, which will be nice.
Also i will be playing tonight, i plan on starting early and staying on late to catch up for some lost time. Lets get our first ranked team win tonight!!! It's about time!
WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
Show me one team in LCS right now, that switches roles. Hence the reason you look at their team page, and they list whose top mid bot support jungle. Cause you play one lane, and you learn it really really well, and the champions you'll come to face in said lane. I have no problems switching lanes, but in ranked games I don't understand why we need to, or would really ever want to.
Scooty, do you think your short term memory stems from insanity or youth?
You giving this speech is like Obama going on TV tomorrow, and declaring that people need to take responsibility for their own lives and financial situations.
I'm going to keep picking on you for a moment if you don't mind. Serious issues, but understand the teasing is in fun.
First, when you started practicing top, and really dedicated yourself to it, did you intentionally go out of your way to pick the one role on the team that we're overflowing with people who play it, and want to play it?
Second, please do not talk yourself up post-game and declare you were the reason we won. I don't care if an opponent said you carried. That opponent said that in a mutual blow smoke up each other's ass chat session that only you two were involved in, and the guy was fishing for an invite into the team. He would have said anything! He was like a teenage boy trying to get into his date's pants.
You played very well, but you didn't carry.
You forget that during that game you were getting beat up by Malphite at top, while I was in mid getting out ranged by Syndra. We switched, and everything changed. It helped us both farm more as we were getting cut off early, helped us control those lanes, freed our jungler up, and imho, won us the game. Our response to bad character match-ups was the turning point of that game.
And not for nothing, but two of your teammates had 27 assists each and some kills, your ADC (Ez) got a good number of kills, and the Teemo (Best Teemo NA) who went top went 16/7/18. Your k/d/a must have been 40/2/20 to consider yourself as having carried that game...
Ok, I'm twisting the knife there, but the point is nothing sucks the life out of a win faster than one person on the winning team taking all the credit for it. You're essentially declaring to your team that their contributions were meaningless. I know that's not your intent, but that's exactly what happens. Don't alienate your teammates that way, and in all honesty, no matter what your score is you need to understand that LoL is a team game. The tank who initiates all team fights, dies in each one, and goes 0/7/15 is just as important, and played just as well, as the carry that goes 12/0/3.
Ok, I'm done picking on Scooty, so let's turn to some other issues...
1. Roles. As stated earlier, we should have set roles (Scooty agrees with me), but we need to have a blood letting before we set them in stone. Top is our biggest problem. Right now we have a guy who just declared himself top, another guy who has been top for over a year and got bumped to jungle, and a guy that isn't great in mid who wants top.
This has had something of a domino effect throughout the team.
Mainly, we've got a jungler who is a bit frustrated with his role. He's learning a new position, and isn't exactly sure why he isn't top anymore with a champ he dedicated a ton of time to.
We've also got a mid who doesn't want to be mid, and his play reflects that.
I don't know what the call is here, but someone needs to lay down the law, and everyone needs to accept their role.
2. Theo. Work that shit out. I know some burping and singing aren't the true issue here because we're men and we burp and fart. It's the way he's been playing lately, and his criticisms of our top that are the true issue. So, I'm just asking that we figure out what we're doing with him. Is he a permanent alternate? Do we dump him outright? Do we appease him and shift roles so he's top? Does anyone say anything to him about how his play has fallen off? I'll eave this issue in the hands of his recruiter, Scooty, and his harshest critic, Cake.
3. This "gold" player. I'm all for bringing him in. However, we already have issues with nights when we have 6 on, do we really want to make that more frequent, and create 7 player nights? None of us have met him either, so we could dump Theo for a better player, and find him to have a worse attitude. Again, I think this is a call for Scooty and Cake since they're the recruiter and team leader.
By the way, let's all give Scooty a legit thanks for stepping up and recruiting quality players. That's something we honestly haven't been able to do.
I think that's enough to spark some chatter today.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
Yall played an awesome game last night, I think we did an amazing job, everyone, at playing as a team. I was only happy to get my first kudos from the enemy team, and by no means meant that I carried and everybody else on my team sucked (now where have I heard that before? . . .). . .
I can go mid if Theo really wants his top lane, as I think a lot of my champions can play just the same if not possibly better in mid lane. I can also pull out some of my other champs like Kennen and Xerath that I really excell at, that I was never able to play up in top lane. Or I can play a different lane, really doesn't matter to me. I have my dedication to the team in full swing at this point, so thats your guys' call at this point. I picked top because it was what I was most familiar with, no issues in learning another lane.
I can do support bottom with nid lux and taric, I can jungle with Olaf and Jax, I just can't and would rather not play adc. Thats all I'm asking.
The gold player I speak of has a ton of talent, a ton of experience, and is very well mannered, I believe you'll like him just as much if not more than Theo. I can speak with Theo if you guys like, I have no problems with that, in fact i'll address some of the issues tonight with him in private chat.
I can go mid if Theo really wants his top lane, as I think a lot of my champions can play just the same if not possibly better in mid lane. I can also pull out some of my other champs like Kennen and Xerath that I really excell at, that I was never able to play up in top lane. Or I can play a different lane, really doesn't matter to me. I have my dedication to the team in full swing at this point, so thats your guys' call at this point. I picked top because it was what I was most familiar with, no issues in learning another lane.
I can do support bottom with nid lux and taric, I can jungle with Olaf and Jax, I just can't and would rather not play adc. Thats all I'm asking.
The gold player I speak of has a ton of talent, a ton of experience, and is very well mannered, I believe you'll like him just as much if not more than Theo. I can speak with Theo if you guys like, I have no problems with that, in fact i'll address some of the issues tonight with him in private chat.
and by no means meant that I carried and everybody else on my team sucked (now where have I heard that before? . . .). . .
Actually, you did specifically say that you carried.
And who does that? I've heard everyone bragging about Kills/Assists and two people who went through a period where they bragged about fewest deaths, but I haven't heard anyone talk about how they carried the team...have I?
I can go mid if Theo really wants his top lane
First, I'm not sure it's just a Theo issue. Gordo has made snarky comments about being booted from Singed/Top, and snarky comments from him usually have something behind them. I don't want him stuck in a role he doesn't want. Ditto for everyone on the team. It's why I think we need to have a team conversation about this topic.
Second, it seems like all 5 of us will be on tonight, so doesn't that eliminate Theo from playing this evening? Point being, if we give him top, it doesn't matter when he's not playing.
I can speak with Theo if you guys like, I have no problems with that, in fact i'll address some of the issues tonight with him in private chat.
Hold off until we have a full chat about it. I honestly think his belching and singing and whatnot aren't the real issues, so I think it's silly to address with him. Silly if they are too...
I think it's more about role and spot on the team, which we have no consensus on at the moment, so hold off on that conversation until we do.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
I was kidding, but gordo always makes the "I played really well, and everyone else just sucked" comments hahah As a joke I'm sure, a lot of his comments crack me up.
And I was really just happy for myself, and purely poking fun when I said I carried, seeing as teemo and Ez had a better score than myself, I forsure didn't NOT carry by any means, I usually never do anyway. Just happy I'm not dragging the team down anymore, and actually contributing to a much needed victory (Or so I hope).
And I was really just happy for myself, and purely poking fun when I said I carried, seeing as teemo and Ez had a better score than myself, I forsure didn't NOT carry by any means, I usually never do anyway. Just happy I'm not dragging the team down anymore, and actually contributing to a much needed victory (Or so I hope).
I know I frequently say that everybody sucks but me, but that is because I honestly believe that to be true.Trooper wrote:I was kidding, but gordo always makes the "I played really well, and everyone else just sucked" comments hahah As a joke I'm sure, a lot of his comments crack me up.
HOWEVER.
I also know that I am insane, so I don't commit to that philosophy too hard.
The Theo issue: the only one I really care about is whether or not he is getting it done. Lately, I don't think he is getting it done. I am pretty sure 0/6/0 cost us that game last night. he didn't hold the lane, he fed Annivia, and he didn't keep Annivia from feeding. Two of those things sound similar, but I consider them separate. I don't know what the issue is... is it really because he can't play mid, and wants top?
As for my snarky comments regarding top: what the hell happened there? My Singed/top was consistent, and rarely failed up there. It seems like we took a decent situation and made it worse. I'll get better in jungle, and I want to buy Shyvana soon (almost have enough IP) and start that aggressive counter-jungling, but I'm not sure if taking Singed out of the game is a great move for the team. Singed is a motherfucker and the enemy team hates him.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Also, regarding Scooty's breaking his arm patting himself on the back, last night: I had assumed he was just being funny. If an enemy said something good about me, I would have done the same thing. Scooty became a terror late game, but I don't think that counts as carrying the team. I assumed he knew that....
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Thank you! Really meant no harm what so ever =]GORDON wrote:Also, regarding Scooty's breaking his arm patting himself on the back, last night: I had assumed he was just being funny. If an enemy said something good about me, I would have done the same thing. Scooty became a terror late game, but I don't think that counts as carrying the team. I assumed he knew that....
Alright guys, i don't mean to change the subject but we can discuss the Theo thing when we get in comms later. But i had an idea that i think could work for our team, i know its not totally original and it has been done before and i've even seen some higher level people do it. And since we are kind of unconventional team when it comes to team comp i think this could work. Now just hear me out first and make your decisions afterwards.
I think we should try to run a double jungle comp! i know! i'm crazy right?! But think about it, Since we have an overrun of top lane champs why don't we just accomodate it. Put Scooty top, Leisher mid and Gordo Bot with Singed and me and Cake in the jungle. One of us starts red the other blue, from there we proceed to cover the map counter jungling and ganking like crazy. One jungler would be the assasin damage dealer (Noc) and the other would be tanky support (Naut). Yes we would lose out on the traditional ADC but if mid top and one jungler build for damage we should be able to do enough damage in team fights. Bot lane will be in a 2v1 position so they will have to be able to farm under their turret and play safe, but with 2 junglers we could come in at them when they are least expecting it.
I have a couple reasons why i think this will work
1. It totally throws off the other team from the get go. We have had problems with our early game and maybe this could be something that could get us off to the good starts we are looking for. Cause i feel we rarely lose when we get an early lead. problem is, we usually get put in a hole from the start.
2. Great map coverage. The ability to react to a losing lane quicker and set up rather nasty 2 man ganks early.
3. Ability to shut down the other jungler making him ineffective. Cause we all know how bad your game goes when you get fucked from the get as a jungler. Its a tough hole to dig out of.
4. It works to our team stregths. We have a good Teemo that can deal plenty of damage, we have a good Singed that now can fit in our team comp with Scooty playing top. And me and Cake have plenty of jungle experience and i think could work together well setting up ganks and countering.
5. Sure bot lane is at a disadvantage but he will be getting more xp than their counterparts, but its no different than when another team has no jungle and its 2v1 top. You just gotta play cautiously and farm under the turret.
6. Fuck the meta! i know that i have been the biggest proponet of it cause i watch so many streams and sometimes i think that it the only thing that works. But those guys are high ELO and prolly could counter a team that tried something like that on them. We on the other hand are low ELO and i don't think most teams have the ability to react to a curveball being thrown at them.
This is something that was on my mind when i woke up today and i just kept thinking about it. I think that it fits our team a little better. Specially since we are trying to put people in positions that they aren't the best at. I think this puts all of us in a position to be successful and noone can be upset about what lane they are in. I don't know, maybe you guys might think its nuts and would never work, but i think it might be something that could work. What do you think?
I think we should try to run a double jungle comp! i know! i'm crazy right?! But think about it, Since we have an overrun of top lane champs why don't we just accomodate it. Put Scooty top, Leisher mid and Gordo Bot with Singed and me and Cake in the jungle. One of us starts red the other blue, from there we proceed to cover the map counter jungling and ganking like crazy. One jungler would be the assasin damage dealer (Noc) and the other would be tanky support (Naut). Yes we would lose out on the traditional ADC but if mid top and one jungler build for damage we should be able to do enough damage in team fights. Bot lane will be in a 2v1 position so they will have to be able to farm under their turret and play safe, but with 2 junglers we could come in at them when they are least expecting it.
I have a couple reasons why i think this will work
1. It totally throws off the other team from the get go. We have had problems with our early game and maybe this could be something that could get us off to the good starts we are looking for. Cause i feel we rarely lose when we get an early lead. problem is, we usually get put in a hole from the start.
2. Great map coverage. The ability to react to a losing lane quicker and set up rather nasty 2 man ganks early.
3. Ability to shut down the other jungler making him ineffective. Cause we all know how bad your game goes when you get fucked from the get as a jungler. Its a tough hole to dig out of.
4. It works to our team stregths. We have a good Teemo that can deal plenty of damage, we have a good Singed that now can fit in our team comp with Scooty playing top. And me and Cake have plenty of jungle experience and i think could work together well setting up ganks and countering.
5. Sure bot lane is at a disadvantage but he will be getting more xp than their counterparts, but its no different than when another team has no jungle and its 2v1 top. You just gotta play cautiously and farm under the turret.
6. Fuck the meta! i know that i have been the biggest proponet of it cause i watch so many streams and sometimes i think that it the only thing that works. But those guys are high ELO and prolly could counter a team that tried something like that on them. We on the other hand are low ELO and i don't think most teams have the ability to react to a curveball being thrown at them.
This is something that was on my mind when i woke up today and i just kept thinking about it. I think that it fits our team a little better. Specially since we are trying to put people in positions that they aren't the best at. I think this puts all of us in a position to be successful and noone can be upset about what lane they are in. I don't know, maybe you guys might think its nuts and would never work, but i think it might be something that could work. What do you think?
WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
Theo's burping/singing isn't a cause of his poor play, it's a sign that he's gotten way more comfortable with us and doesn't mind sucking in games now.
As far as team comp:
We are not a pro team that is available as a team 24/7. Sometimes, our ONE support person is doing something else one night. Sometimes our ONE primary adc is playing poker. Etc. We have to cross train. I see no way around this.
We can have a primary role so when we have a whole team present, we know where we are playing. I have no issues with that.
Gordon:
He's not really being kicked out of top. He's being forced to cross train. But I get strong vibes of resistance from him. Pretty much every night he's not Singed top, he's really pissed off about something going wrong. Again, this is my perception and I could be wrong. More evidence is when after three games as GP in jungle, he wants to be done because he's tired of playing GP jungle. He wants to Singed top like he has a brazillion times already. Tired of playing a champ after three games, but wants to play a champ he's played 100's of consecutive games as. I interpret that as "I don't want to play GP, I just want to play Singed". Again, I could be wrong.
He's a one trick pony. He has no other champ that he can play as well as he plays Singed. I wish he had more "mains".
Having been spoiled by Theo and Scooty playing champs that can bring some pain from top lane, I'd love to see you do the same. It's rare that Singed has a solid k/d ratio. It's normally just, meh. Last nightss last game, top, mid and adc all had twice as many kills (at least) than deaths. Made it a very easy win for us. I don't play Singed, etc. But I've seen a lot of Singeds bring a lot of pain. Don't know if it's a difference in builds/runes/play style/etc. Can you enlighten me? Not judging. Not saying you suck. I'm asking, because I don't know.
Leisher:
Needs more cowbell. And more ADC choices. I was disappointed seeing EZ last night. I'd rather you do a 25 game challenge as Varus. Yes, I pushed you into mid as part of my cross training initiative. Now I'm shifting gears again. I guess I never really knew how weak we were in our ADC depth. I counted on me being able to play Graves as a second ADC option. But, when I'm already locked in as Noc and the enemy takes EZ. . . well, lesson learned. I'm asking that you get back into your primary role and expand your ADC champ selection.
Scooty:
Your dedication to top is something we've NEVER seen from you before. I'd still like to see a more consistent champ choice (25 game challenge) because I still don't know how to play with you. Case in point, the TT game we played. You were Malph. A common top lane champ. But I was afraid to engage in fights because I never fight with Malph. I don't know what he does, when, how it affects the enemies, how it affects me, etc. I learn this through repetition in games. Not by reading a champ description on a website. Plus, just because he has 'Ability A' that does 'this', doesn't mean I know how it's going to be used in our game, how it really affects enemies, etc, etc, etc. A perfect example would be thresh's lantern. We all know what it does. But it's going to be many many many games of seeing it and using it for us to really take advantage of it. That comes with repetition. So many games you are fighting the enemies saying "Come on people, I'm initiating you need to take advantage of this." But, we have no feel for your initiations. We have no feel for your survivability. So, what might actually be an awesomely effective initiation, is interpreted as you diving 5 enemies and we need to pull back because it's about to be a 4v5 fight for us. We won't know till we've seen it and learn it. Hell, I PLAY Amumu and didn't realize the amount of damage I'm capable of. On TT, I always played tanky. The other night, I went pure damage, and was melting them. So, I'm still learning my own champs in various situations. It's going to take more than reading some paragraphs and playing 3 games with you to know yours.
Also, switch lanes. . . We have three tops. Since I'm cross training support now, Jungle and mid would be open. I'd suggest Mid to stay with your 'replace Theo' theme. Also, Leisher and Stranger are both competent junglers.
Stranger:
Sharpen your 'whatever' skills. What role do you want to cross train?
Theo:
Play better. We know you can. Do it. Yes, we play the game for fun. But it's more fun to play a good solid game and win than to play a 'who cares if I feed I'm just fucking around' game and lose. Go back to the first two weeks version of Theo. I'm not going to scold him for burping/singing (Although both of those things annoy me to no end no matter who does it). I'm going to let him know that if he wants to keep being invited, he's got to play better. If we wanted to lose games playing with someone who doesn't care, we play with randoms. We are trying to build a team. Act/play like it.
Me:
I'm spreading my skills too thin. . . I care too much. . . . Seriously though, I feel like if I want a good solid second option for support, I have to do it myself. No one else takes it seriously enough. And that's fine. I have NO problem playing support. I want to win games and I train many long hours to get better so that we can. But, I haven't played mid in so long that I'm betting I'm rusty. Not a huge issue if Scooty or Theo step up and do a good job there. We won't miss me there. I need to call targets more often. I get out of 'leadership' mode too easily and just play. Then we don't focus the same targets, etc. I'll let you guys fill in the rest of this. What are my weaknesses and where should I improve?
My version of team/roles:
Leisher - ADC, Mid
Gordon - Top, Jungle
Stranger - Support, Jungle
Theo - Top, Mid
Scooty - Top, Jungle
Cake - Jungle, Support
Having typed that, we have no solid back up for ADC. Who's a good candidate for that? Perhaps Stranger should secondary ADC instead of Jungle? I picked jungle, because he has a ton of experience there. But, supports make the best ADCs, no? I've been cross training ADC as Graves, but, that's my only champ. I could go Ashe, but, it would suck. Never had time to train up a second one. So, really, we are only slightly less weak in ADC as we are support.
Lets use this as a base to build from. If everyone agrees with what I typed, then we start fixing this tonight. Cross train, new champs, etc. Ya, we are going to lose games. I don't care. We aren't going to stop losing games until we do this. The only other option is to never play ranked, never play secondary champs. Just play the same team comp/champs over and over until we hate the game. . . Or something. But, I want to play ranked, as do some other people. I think this is the road to get there. Add your comments/opinions (no matter how wrong they are. You won't be laughed at) and we'll modify this. But we've talked for many many months about going ranked, but can't because we haven't trained for it. We just keep playing 'fun' games to 'shake off the rust' or because 'we need a win'. I don't see losses. I see learning opportunities. We are either doing this, or we aren't. If we aren't, so be it. We can stop talking about it and just do whatever. But if we are, then, see above.
As far as team comp:
We are not a pro team that is available as a team 24/7. Sometimes, our ONE support person is doing something else one night. Sometimes our ONE primary adc is playing poker. Etc. We have to cross train. I see no way around this.
We can have a primary role so when we have a whole team present, we know where we are playing. I have no issues with that.
Gordon:
He's not really being kicked out of top. He's being forced to cross train. But I get strong vibes of resistance from him. Pretty much every night he's not Singed top, he's really pissed off about something going wrong. Again, this is my perception and I could be wrong. More evidence is when after three games as GP in jungle, he wants to be done because he's tired of playing GP jungle. He wants to Singed top like he has a brazillion times already. Tired of playing a champ after three games, but wants to play a champ he's played 100's of consecutive games as. I interpret that as "I don't want to play GP, I just want to play Singed". Again, I could be wrong.
He's a one trick pony. He has no other champ that he can play as well as he plays Singed. I wish he had more "mains".
Having been spoiled by Theo and Scooty playing champs that can bring some pain from top lane, I'd love to see you do the same. It's rare that Singed has a solid k/d ratio. It's normally just, meh. Last nightss last game, top, mid and adc all had twice as many kills (at least) than deaths. Made it a very easy win for us. I don't play Singed, etc. But I've seen a lot of Singeds bring a lot of pain. Don't know if it's a difference in builds/runes/play style/etc. Can you enlighten me? Not judging. Not saying you suck. I'm asking, because I don't know.
Leisher:
Needs more cowbell. And more ADC choices. I was disappointed seeing EZ last night. I'd rather you do a 25 game challenge as Varus. Yes, I pushed you into mid as part of my cross training initiative. Now I'm shifting gears again.
I guess I never really knew how weak we were in our ADC depth. I counted on me being able to play Graves as a second ADC option. But, when I'm already locked in as Noc and the enemy takes EZ. . . well, lesson learned. I'm asking that you get back into your primary role and expand your ADC champ selection.Scooty:
Your dedication to top is something we've NEVER seen from you before. I'd still like to see a more consistent champ choice (25 game challenge) because I still don't know how to play with you. Case in point, the TT game we played. You were Malph. A common top lane champ. But I was afraid to engage in fights because I never fight with Malph. I don't know what he does, when, how it affects the enemies, how it affects me, etc. I learn this through repetition in games. Not by reading a champ description on a website. Plus, just because he has 'Ability A' that does 'this', doesn't mean I know how it's going to be used in our game, how it really affects enemies, etc, etc, etc. A perfect example would be thresh's lantern. We all know what it does. But it's going to be many many many games of seeing it and using it for us to really take advantage of it. That comes with repetition. So many games you are fighting the enemies saying "Come on people, I'm initiating you need to take advantage of this." But, we have no feel for your initiations. We have no feel for your survivability. So, what might actually be an awesomely effective initiation, is interpreted as you diving 5 enemies and we need to pull back because it's about to be a 4v5 fight for us. We won't know till we've seen it and learn it. Hell, I PLAY Amumu and didn't realize the amount of damage I'm capable of. On TT, I always played tanky. The other night, I went pure damage, and was melting them. So, I'm still learning my own champs in various situations. It's going to take more than reading some paragraphs and playing 3 games with you to know yours.
Also, switch lanes. . . We have three tops. Since I'm cross training support now, Jungle and mid would be open. I'd suggest Mid to stay with your 'replace Theo' theme. Also, Leisher and Stranger are both competent junglers.
Stranger:
Sharpen your 'whatever' skills. What role do you want to cross train?
Theo:
Play better. We know you can. Do it. Yes, we play the game for fun. But it's more fun to play a good solid game and win than to play a 'who cares if I feed I'm just fucking around' game and lose. Go back to the first two weeks version of Theo. I'm not going to scold him for burping/singing (Although both of those things annoy me to no end no matter who does it). I'm going to let him know that if he wants to keep being invited, he's got to play better. If we wanted to lose games playing with someone who doesn't care, we play with randoms. We are trying to build a team. Act/play like it.
Me:
I'm spreading my skills too thin. . . I care too much. . . . Seriously though, I feel like if I want a good solid second option for support, I have to do it myself. No one else takes it seriously enough. And that's fine. I have NO problem playing support. I want to win games and I train many long hours to get better so that we can. But, I haven't played mid in so long that I'm betting I'm rusty. Not a huge issue if Scooty or Theo step up and do a good job there. We won't miss me there. I need to call targets more often. I get out of 'leadership' mode too easily and just play. Then we don't focus the same targets, etc. I'll let you guys fill in the rest of this. What are my weaknesses and where should I improve?
My version of team/roles:
Leisher - ADC, Mid
Gordon - Top, Jungle
Stranger - Support, Jungle
Theo - Top, Mid
Scooty - Top, Jungle
Cake - Jungle, Support
Having typed that, we have no solid back up for ADC. Who's a good candidate for that? Perhaps Stranger should secondary ADC instead of Jungle? I picked jungle, because he has a ton of experience there. But, supports make the best ADCs, no? I've been cross training ADC as Graves, but, that's my only champ. I could go Ashe, but, it would suck. Never had time to train up a second one. So, really, we are only slightly less weak in ADC as we are support.
Lets use this as a base to build from. If everyone agrees with what I typed, then we start fixing this tonight. Cross train, new champs, etc. Ya, we are going to lose games. I don't care. We aren't going to stop losing games until we do this. The only other option is to never play ranked, never play secondary champs. Just play the same team comp/champs over and over until we hate the game. . . Or something. But, I want to play ranked, as do some other people. I think this is the road to get there.
Add your comments/opinions (no matter how wrong they are. You won't be laughed at) and we'll modify this. But we've talked for many many months about going ranked, but can't because we haven't trained for it. We just keep playing 'fun' games to 'shake off the rust' or because 'we need a win'. I don't see losses. I see learning opportunities. We are either doing this, or we aren't. If we aren't, so be it. We can stop talking about it and just do whatever. But if we are, then, see above.Ok, after actually reading it. . . I would be game for it, but it just nullified that entire wall of text I took the time to write. . . .
My problems with Singed:
He's a second support champ on our team. The best things I see from Singed and the most help he is to the team is when he flips an enemy away from an ally that is about to die and uses his glue to slow an enemy that is about to kill an ally. Beyond that, it's rare that he flips a vulnerable target that we can then pounce on. More often than not, it's just who ever is closest. And that's rarely who we want flipped. He doesn't do that much damage. If the enemy team is disciplined and ignores Singed, then he's running around poisoning people to little effect. Meanwhile, they passed by singed and are chewing up our squishies. If his poison did more damage, they would be far more hesitant to wade into it to attack our team. I never see Singed shining. Yes, you hold your lane. You hold it well. But you never own it. You often are the first to score a turret, but it normally costs you 2-5 deaths in the process. I'd rather their turret still be there and them not have those kills. Not feeding should be primary. Killing enemies/turrets should be secondary. I would happily trade my turret for 3-5 kills. Wu Kong top going 15/7/12 is greater than Singed going 5/7/19, in my opinion. You play a very passive Singed that the enemy often ignores. And I don't mean that as harsh criticism, because you also support the team like a pro. You have saved MANY of us with your flips and glue. And you've helped secure many kills. But you are never a terror Singed that the enemies fear. At least from my stand point. I could be wrong.
Dual jungle thing:
It does sound fun and would be an awesome change of pace. However, I see our junglers falling way behind in gold/levels. We clear our jungle in the first 90 seconds of the game starting. Then we head over to theirs. Probably catching theirs and first blooding. Pulling them out of their lanes to counter, etc. But their jungle is going to supply minimal gold/xp for us. We are spending a lot of time running around looking for ganks, while being out farmed and leveled. So, if we can figure out a way to keep from falling behind, this would be funny and fun.
My problems with Singed:
He's a second support champ on our team. The best things I see from Singed and the most help he is to the team is when he flips an enemy away from an ally that is about to die and uses his glue to slow an enemy that is about to kill an ally. Beyond that, it's rare that he flips a vulnerable target that we can then pounce on. More often than not, it's just who ever is closest. And that's rarely who we want flipped. He doesn't do that much damage. If the enemy team is disciplined and ignores Singed, then he's running around poisoning people to little effect. Meanwhile, they passed by singed and are chewing up our squishies. If his poison did more damage, they would be far more hesitant to wade into it to attack our team. I never see Singed shining. Yes, you hold your lane. You hold it well. But you never own it. You often are the first to score a turret, but it normally costs you 2-5 deaths in the process. I'd rather their turret still be there and them not have those kills. Not feeding should be primary. Killing enemies/turrets should be secondary. I would happily trade my turret for 3-5 kills. Wu Kong top going 15/7/12 is greater than Singed going 5/7/19, in my opinion. You play a very passive Singed that the enemy often ignores. And I don't mean that as harsh criticism, because you also support the team like a pro. You have saved MANY of us with your flips and glue. And you've helped secure many kills. But you are never a terror Singed that the enemies fear. At least from my stand point. I could be wrong.
Dual jungle thing:
It does sound fun and would be an awesome change of pace. However, I see our junglers falling way behind in gold/levels. We clear our jungle in the first 90 seconds of the game starting. Then we head over to theirs. Probably catching theirs and first blooding. Pulling them out of their lanes to counter, etc. But their jungle is going to supply minimal gold/xp for us. We are spending a lot of time running around looking for ganks, while being out farmed and leveled. So, if we can figure out a way to keep from falling behind, this would be funny and fun.
Oh, and I think I said this already, but I don't remember. Gordon/Singed wasn't kicked out of top. Theo requested top, and you let him borrow it in the name of being nice and to cross train. Then Scooty wanted to replace Theo on the team and trained what Theo had been playing, which was top. Thus, too many tops.
I know I frequently say that everybody sucks but me, but that is because I honestly believe that to be true.
HOWEVER.
I also know that I am insane, so I don't commit to that philosophy too hard.
That made me laugh.
Stranger's proposal is interesting, but you'd almost need the second jungler to be support, with the primary being the ADC. If they didn't get kills when ganking, they're going to be VERY behind. It's interesting, but everybody would need to be on board, and it's going to take a while to get down. The potential flaws are massive though. Any enemy team that responds well or is built to farm from their turret is going to do well against us.
Leisher:
Needs more cowbell. And more ADC choices. I was disappointed seeing EZ last night. I'd rather you do a 25 game challenge as Varus. Yes, I pushed you into mid as part of my cross training initiative. Now I'm shifting gears again.
You should have mentioned it last night. I was going purely on instinct. Never thought about it until this morning, when I thought to myself, "Why didn't I play Varus or MF last night?" My intention was to do so, but I just forgot. So remind me if you see Ez.
Also, fun fact, the two most selected AD champs at the last big LoL event... Ezreal and MF. Corki and Graves were selected exactly zero and one time. The meta, she is a changin'.
Stranger:
Sharpen your 'whatever' skills. What role do you want to cross train?
I think Stranger has always been solid in the jungle, and his support is top notch.
Theo:
Play better. We know you can. Do it. Yes, we play the game for fun. But it's more fun to play a good solid game and win than to play a 'who cares if I feed I'm just fucking around' game and lose. Go back to the first two weeks version of Theo. I'm not going to scold him for burping/singing (Although both of those things annoy me to no end no matter who does it). I'm going to let him know that if he wants to keep being invited, he's got to play better. If we wanted to lose games playing with someone who doesn't care, we play with randoms. We are trying to build a team. Act/play like it.
Good, let him know.
As for burping, and we'll include farting, I'm a guy. Guys occasionally have moments where they make disgusting noises. I apologize in advance, and try to move my mic if a burp is coming. If that previous sentence isn't good enough for you, it's your problem.
Scooty:
Mid as his secondary would be perfect.
Me:
I always put you as jungle/mid, although you've been playing a solid support nidalee. You are our best jungler, but your mid wasn't at that level. You didn't suck, but I think your worst games have occurred in mid. (Not that they all sucked.)
Gordon:
My stance, and Gordo knows this, is that I think his TT Singed is spot on, but his SR Singed is not doing enough damage. I don't know if it's due to runes or maybe he needs to add a Rabadon's Deathcap into his build...not sure.
And let me add that since he's been our tank for so long, I don't really blame him for having the build that he does. I just want him to switch things up and see what happens. I have a feeling that the reduction in health/armor will be offset by the fact that nobody will be able to go near him.
Edited By Leisher on 1360968893
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
Mid is a VERY hard lane to master, in my opinion. The champs there are so bursty and diverse that it's hard to keep up. Lots and lots of games is the only answer. My best games come after many many refresher games. Luckily for you guys, most of those are in solo queue instead of with you so it doesn't drag you all down.
I typically quit at midnight not because of RAGE, but because 6 days a week I am up at 6:30, and I get fucking tired. This is also why I don't like starting past 10.
I typically get extra tired after 2 games in the jungle because I am not yet comfortable with it, and because of that I have to focus hard, and it gets exhausting after 2 50 minute games. It would be very nice to break my constant tension with a character I am comfortable with every few games.
AND........... I get irritated after a game in the jungle when I do well, and then someone else doesn't. It's a lot harder to play a good jungler than a good top, in my opinion, so I feel like if I am rocking the jungle, then other people should be rocking their lanes. Unfair, of course. But that's part of that constant tension I just mentioned, because I am not comfortable yet.
SO I'll play your jungler, and ya'll'll just have to deal with me acting like a little bitch about it.
Edited By GORDON on 1360971495
I typically get extra tired after 2 games in the jungle because I am not yet comfortable with it, and because of that I have to focus hard, and it gets exhausting after 2 50 minute games. It would be very nice to break my constant tension with a character I am comfortable with every few games.
AND........... I get irritated after a game in the jungle when I do well, and then someone else doesn't. It's a lot harder to play a good jungler than a good top, in my opinion, so I feel like if I am rocking the jungle, then other people should be rocking their lanes. Unfair, of course. But that's part of that constant tension I just mentioned, because I am not comfortable yet.
SO I'll play your jungler, and ya'll'll just have to deal with me acting like a little bitch about it.
Edited By GORDON on 1360971495
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Oh, as far as your next jungle choice. Shyvanna may have owned you the other night, but, it wasn't because she was Shyvanna. It was because she was in your jungle. Shaco. Shaco is the master of counter jungling. He sets up boxes and just waits for you. Very little you can do once you run into him. But he's probably harder to learn than Shy. Not to mention his stealth ganks, multiple shaco copy guy, etc. Shyvanna might be a good second jungler in the proposed dual jungle thing. Or do Shy if you think she looks fun. I'm just sayin' to pick a jungler you think looks fun. Not the one that just kicked your ass because she kicked your ass. You are new at jungle and can be easily countered right now. Hell, I've got a ton of experience and still get countered. It's how you counter as apposed to who you are countering with. I was suggesting Shaco because he was one of the champs I was considering adding to my list.
Regarding Stranger's meta-breaking dual jungler scheme:
I sorta like it. I think the weaknesses of that setup will be offset by the confusion the other teams are thrown into... and since we typically only ever play any group of people once, it isn't like they will get wise to us and counter us, next game.
The biggest problem I see is with the guy, or guys, in the enemy jungle. As soon as the enemy team responds well, one or both of our junglers are dead.
I sorta like it. I think the weaknesses of that setup will be offset by the confusion the other teams are thrown into... and since we typically only ever play any group of people once, it isn't like they will get wise to us and counter us, next game.
The biggest problem I see is with the guy, or guys, in the enemy jungle. As soon as the enemy team responds well, one or both of our junglers are dead.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."