Page 60 of 100
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:13 pm
by Malcolm
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:23 pm
by Leisher
I don't think that's the only concern the teachers might have at lower income schools.
I know quite a few teachers, including one principal, and the most common complaint I hear is about parents who don't give a fuck and disrespectful kids. Two things that are less common in suburban schools.
There's also the safety and security aspect.
I don't hear any of them saying they want to work in urban schools, but they sure do sound happy when they get jobs in suburban schools.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:26 pm
by Malcolm
He's only talking about the shitty teacher aspect. I'll certainly agree to those other statements, but those almost have to be addressed outside the classroom.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:02 pm
by TPRJones
The solution to that is simple: treat public schooling as a privilege rather than a right - and also as an educational institution instead of a baby-sitting service. Kid being a little shit in class all the time? They get thrown out of school. Go find something else for them to do with their time, because they are no longer welcome there.
Of course there must be some checks and balances to avoid shitty administration persecuting kids, but those details can be worked out.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:08 pm
by Malcolm
Go find something else for them to do with their time, because they are no longer welcome there.
Awesome, you've just injected future criminals with motivation into society.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:11 pm
by Vince
Malcolm wrote:Go find something else for them to do with their time, because they are no longer welcome there.
Awesome, you've just injected future criminals with motivation into society.
The schools are already churning those out. TPR's answer at least has the benefit of not dragging down the kids that WANT to be there in school.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:13 pm
by Malcolm
Vince wrote:Malcolm wrote:Go find something else for them to do with their time, because they are no longer welcome there.
Awesome, you've just injected future criminals with motivation into society.
The schools are already churning those out. TPR's answer at least has the benefit of not dragging down the kids that WANT to be there in school.
His answer would increase the number. By lots.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:43 pm
by Leisher
No reason there can't be a "second tier" school for the kids who can't behave.
You could even give them a three strikes sort of system in the normal schools. Hit that third strike, and it's down to the minors.
Want to get back up? Get the grades and maintain good behavior.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:45 pm
by TPRJones
Not at all. Those going that way were already headed that way, this would just get them started sooner.
And maybe if having to figure out what to do with the kids while they were at work were a real possibility, the parents would pay more attention before it got that far.
No reason there can't be a "second tier" school for the kids who can't behave.
True. We could call it, like, The Prison School for Future Assholes.
Edited By TPRJones on 1404758853
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:29 pm
by Malcolm
Those going that way were already headed that way, this would just get them started sooner.
This society doesn't have the balls to implement a "3 strikes" rule for school. It also needs to be something considerably more harsh than taking away their educational possibilities, which means almost nothing to most kids. Think no GED/diploma means no driver's license, and you're getting closer.
Get the grades and maintain good behavior.
Those are two separate issues and I would tackle them individually.
...the most common complaint I hear is about parents who don't give a fuck and disrespectful kids.
I believe we're more focused on the assholes than the slow learners. The latter may be able to get along with society.
And maybe if having to figure out what to do with the kids while they were at work were a real possibility, the parents would pay more attention before it got that far.
Not a fucking chance.
True. We could call it, like, The Prison School for Future Assholes.
You may as well give up on them at that point and make them janitors for life.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:30 pm
by GORDON
Malcolm wrote:Vince wrote:Malcolm wrote:
Awesome, you've just injected future criminals with motivation into society.
The schools are already churning those out. TPR's answer at least has the benefit of not dragging down the kids that WANT to be there in school.
His answer would increase the number. By lots.
His answer also reduces the number of useless, worthless shitheads in school by lots.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:36 pm
by Malcolm
His answer also reduces the number of useless, worthless shitheads in school by lots.
At what point is it cheaper and more effective to cut ties with delinquents and turn them loose as opposed to continuing the attempts to drill a sense of usefulness into them? I'd argue rarely. The job of a school is to reduce the number of useless, worthless shitheads. Booting them out into the world might solve a short-term problem or two but only at the cost of greater future problems.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:50 pm
by GORDON
Malcolm wrote:His answer also reduces the number of useless, worthless shitheads in school by lots.
At what point is it cheaper and more effective to cut ties with delinquents and turn them loose as opposed to continuing the attempts to drill a sense of usefulness into them? I'd argue rarely. The job of a school is to reduce the number of useless, worthless shitheads. Booting them out into the world might solve a short-term problem or two but only at the cost of greater future problems.
Paging TPR. I don't want to steal his line.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:56 pm
by Leisher
Those are two separate issues and I would tackle them individually.
No. We'll keep a D average kid with good behavior in the school for kids who want futures, but if a kid maintains an A average yet is violent towards his classmates, fuck him.
I believe we're more focused on the assholes than the slow learners.
That's how things currently run. Look around. We do everything for the lowest common denominator. It's bullshit.
Instead of putting the bar for anything where the average person should be able to reach it, we set it as low as possible.
We teach to the morons instead of the average.
We drag everyone else down so that we don't alienate the dregs of society.
We need to stop doing that shit. If people are assholes, stop treating them like society just doesn't understand them. Treat them like the assholes they are, and force them to change. Don't force the rest of us to change to accommodate their asshole ways.
You may as well give up on them at that point and make them janitors for life.
The world needs ditch diggers too. We need to stop pretending like you've failed at life if that's all you achieve.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:09 pm
by TPRJones
The job of a school is to reduce the number of useless, worthless shitheads.
No, only parents have a hope of doing that. The job of schools is to educate those that are willing to be educated. No more than that is possible.
Paging TPR. I don't want to steal his line.
Oh, right.
biofuel
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:12 pm
by Vince
Malcolm wrote:His answer also reduces the number of useless, worthless shitheads in school by lots.
At what point is it cheaper and more effective to cut ties with delinquents and turn them loose as opposed to continuing the attempts to drill a sense of usefulness into them? I'd argue rarely. The job of a school is to reduce the number of useless, worthless shitheads. Booting them out into the world might solve a short-term problem or two but only at the cost of greater future problems.
But how many useless assholes is your method creating by bringing down the entire system because it's filled with too may useless assholes already. You seem to think keeping useless asshioles surrounded by decent people will make the assholes into decent people. It doesn't work that way.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:17 pm
by Malcolm
Treat them like the assholes they are, and force them to change.
Are you assuming the street is just going to swallow them up and erase them from existence?
The world needs ditch diggers too. We need to stop pretending like you've failed at life if that's all you achieve.
Good luck selling that story. The world needs ditch diggers until the Digger 2000 comes out and creates more ditches in a day than 100 workers. In that case, the world needs Digger 2000 manufacturers and operators.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:17 pm
by Leisher
You seem to think keeping useless asshioles surrounded by decent people will make the assholes into decent people. It doesn't work that way.
Government housing has proven that.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:18 pm
by Malcolm
Fine. All the losers get shoved somewhere out of the hair of everyone else. Hello, Escape from New York.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:31 pm
by TPRJones
That works.