League of Legends - Trumped up Rock, Paper, Scissors
http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs....to-rush
Read this article also.. i'm not sure that Liandry's is the ideal rush item. This article seems to suggest rushing either Rabadon's, Lich Bane or Deathfire Grasp as a first depending on the champ you are running.
But either way I think Liandry's should be in most AP builds as of right now. As for nerfs... i'm sure they will come, they always do.
Read this article also.. i'm not sure that Liandry's is the ideal rush item. This article seems to suggest rushing either Rabadon's, Lich Bane or Deathfire Grasp as a first depending on the champ you are running.
But either way I think Liandry's should be in most AP builds as of right now. As for nerfs... i'm sure they will come, they always do.
WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
It's been in my Teemo build list since the day it appeared. (It helps that it was in Teemo's recommended items...)
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
I was going to point out that they were comparing L to V, not L to all AP items. It's not a must have for all AP champs, nor should it be built first. I've never had a problem with you using it, or saying it was dumb. I just picked other items for my champs. I'm not going to skip the Rab for the LT. LT is comparable to the Void Staff. Both late build items. Just like Lichbane ROCKS on Ziggs and Veigar, but might not be as good for Teemo because Teemo doesn't build his AP >500 (That I've noticed). When Ziggs/Veigar have 650+ basic attacks along with their burst. . . screw LT, in my opinion.
And for the record, I rush my Rab on my AP champs. Even Nid (giving support items priority). I've ALWAYS said, you have to build damage early to guarantee those last hits. Finishing your boots (or buying them at all) during laning is a waste. You shouldn't be chasing at that point any way. Just last hitting. I hate that Scooty builds second tier boots before finishing his damage items.
And for the record, I rush my Rab on my AP champs. Even Nid (giving support items priority). I've ALWAYS said, you have to build damage early to guarantee those last hits. Finishing your boots (or buying them at all) during laning is a waste. You shouldn't be chasing at that point any way. Just last hitting. I hate that Scooty builds second tier boots before finishing his damage items.
I spoke out of order there. Don't get the LT first, rush the haunting guise or whatever it is that builds INTO the LT. Then rush the rabadons, and come back to finish the LT later. Thats what I do on all my AP champs, but my point was that eventually It should make it into your AP builds, cause its devastating. And I only get the Tier 2 boots when they're needed. I don't get boots of swiftness like you do, because i find them to be a waste. Usually always go ninja tabi for my bruisers, and the boots that give magic pen, as those stats help out a lot especially early game. If i'm not catching people with my bruisers (Which is a big must seeing as i need to catch them in order to stun and damage them), i'll grab the tier 2 boots.
Theo is the one you're talking about, who buys the Homeguard boots right off the bat. Not me. They're purely situational, and almost always the last thing i'll buy. Jax Irelia are the only ones I'll buy tier 2 boots for early, cause they're the ones with the stuns.
Theo is the one you're talking about, who buys the Homeguard boots right off the bat. Not me. They're purely situational, and almost always the last thing i'll buy. Jax Irelia are the only ones I'll buy tier 2 boots for early, cause they're the ones with the stuns.
First game last night:
Perfectly coordinated rout where everyone was talking so much that comms were never silent. It felt like we were everywhere.
Second game:
Basically, the exact opposite.
So what happened? Why did things go so differently?
I heard Stranger complain about how the junglers were starting, and a suggestion that one go red and then other blue. Is that something to think about?
I got rocked in mid by Katarina, who is a terrible matchup for Teemo, and something we need to watch for in the future. I can hold off anyone if I can use my minions as cover, but if it's a champ that can flash over them at will, or their shots ignore the minions, I'll have a much more difficult time.
I'm out tonight, as are a few other folks, I believe, but perhaps we continue polishing this two jungler thing Thursday, and then head into ranked Friday/Saturday with it? We're bound to catch some teams completely unready for it.
We simply got beat by a team who was responding really, really well, and had their Kat get fed.
Perfectly coordinated rout where everyone was talking so much that comms were never silent. It felt like we were everywhere.
Second game:
Basically, the exact opposite.
So what happened? Why did things go so differently?
I heard Stranger complain about how the junglers were starting, and a suggestion that one go red and then other blue. Is that something to think about?
I got rocked in mid by Katarina, who is a terrible matchup for Teemo, and something we need to watch for in the future. I can hold off anyone if I can use my minions as cover, but if it's a champ that can flash over them at will, or their shots ignore the minions, I'll have a much more difficult time.
I'm out tonight, as are a few other folks, I believe, but perhaps we continue polishing this two jungler thing Thursday, and then head into ranked Friday/Saturday with it? We're bound to catch some teams completely unready for it.
We simply got beat by a team who was responding really, really well, and had their Kat get fed.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
By the way, we were talking about bans, and I think banning tanks is sort of dumb. When's the last time we lost a game because of Blitz?
We've laned enough at this point that we know to hide behind minions. I realize Malph might get tough, but he's still just a tank. Ignore him.
I think our bans should focus on two things:
-OP champs
-Champs who give us problems/work against our dual jungle routine
So, for example, we'd ban Katarina, who is considered by the community to be one of the most OP champs at the moment. (Yes, I know Scooty is practicing with her, but if the other team gets her, mid is screwed unless we adjust, which should work unless they don't have a jungler.) She'd be a good ban because she is not only a match up problem, but she's also currently OP.
Who gives us problems? Who is OP?
-Darius - He isn't as much of a threat as he used to be, but his kit is still OP. Riot admitted it, so arguing that point is foolish. It's why they're reworking his kit. No champ should be a tank, do ADC damage, Teemo's poison, Garen ult, and have it instantly refresh. However, is he a good ban? I wouldn't waste one on him. We could always throw Singed mid and Teemo top if a Darius shows up.
-Katarina - I explained some about her earlier, and I personally don't like that she has a refreshing ult.
-Anivia - Not a lot of people play this champ, and I'm not sure why. He's one that interests me after getting rocking by him. Double damage abilities? An aoe ult with a 6 second cooldown? A great escape/close/support mechanic? Free slows? And a passive that allows him free guardian angel armor? We've had trouble with this champ...
-Zyra - As a mid, I don't think Zyra stands out as OP, but as a support, she is completely OP, and can zone a team out of farm. I know if I was in the ADC role that game, I'd lobby strongly for her to be banned.
-Malph - Is he a good ban? He is a bitch to kill once he gets going, and is one of the best initiators in the game.
-Amumu - Not sure how much of a problem he is since you can now attack him during his ult, but prior to that we got owned by Amumu's because we'd all group up for his ults...
Edited By Leisher on 1361370774
We've laned enough at this point that we know to hide behind minions. I realize Malph might get tough, but he's still just a tank. Ignore him.
I think our bans should focus on two things:
-OP champs
-Champs who give us problems/work against our dual jungle routine
So, for example, we'd ban Katarina, who is considered by the community to be one of the most OP champs at the moment. (Yes, I know Scooty is practicing with her, but if the other team gets her, mid is screwed unless we adjust, which should work unless they don't have a jungler.) She'd be a good ban because she is not only a match up problem, but she's also currently OP.
Who gives us problems? Who is OP?
-Darius - He isn't as much of a threat as he used to be, but his kit is still OP. Riot admitted it, so arguing that point is foolish. It's why they're reworking his kit. No champ should be a tank, do ADC damage, Teemo's poison, Garen ult, and have it instantly refresh. However, is he a good ban? I wouldn't waste one on him. We could always throw Singed mid and Teemo top if a Darius shows up.
-Katarina - I explained some about her earlier, and I personally don't like that she has a refreshing ult.
-Anivia - Not a lot of people play this champ, and I'm not sure why. He's one that interests me after getting rocking by him. Double damage abilities? An aoe ult with a 6 second cooldown? A great escape/close/support mechanic? Free slows? And a passive that allows him free guardian angel armor? We've had trouble with this champ...
-Zyra - As a mid, I don't think Zyra stands out as OP, but as a support, she is completely OP, and can zone a team out of farm. I know if I was in the ADC role that game, I'd lobby strongly for her to be banned.
-Malph - Is he a good ban? He is a bitch to kill once he gets going, and is one of the best initiators in the game.
-Amumu - Not sure how much of a problem he is since you can now attack him during his ult, but prior to that we got owned by Amumu's because we'd all group up for his ults...
Edited By Leisher on 1361370774
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
Malph isn't a win button for us. Neither is Shen. None of us are experts at them, and none of us are experts at playing along side of them. I would MUCH rather have a champ that you, and the rest of the team knows really well instead of Malph. Those champs are always banned because there is little, to no, counter to them.
I'd be game for trying to ban other champs and let Malph, Amumu, etc in the games. But in ranked, there's a high probability that there will be someone that knows how to use them. And that will hurt us. Scooty will argue that WE need to train them then so we can use them in the 2% of games where they aren't banned. But I'll counter with, I'd rather train/play with champs we know we can get. Become experts at those champs, THEN add the more obscure champs to our list. We get better through repetition. And you can't repeatedly play banned champs.
Double jungle. . . First game was really good. Lots of comms, good decisions and strong/fast/hard responses by our team. Second game, we were spread out, not responding well and somewhat less chatty in chat.
First game: Junglers stuck together. Every one of our ganks was a 3 v X fight. When someone was in trouble or getting ganked, we had a two man response team running around. Stranger said he was behind in farm, and I think we can perfect our farming to correct that. We had safety and power in our numbers and our ability to respond to situations.
Second game: Junglers split up. I felt very weak and vulnerable the whole game. Counter jungling was risky because I'm alone, behind in levels/farm and in enemy territory. When I tried to counter, they'd get me everything. So I was left sharing the farm of our jungle and fell even further behind. I couldn't/didn't respond to all situations because I was too weak to participate. When I did, I would die as I was low level, etc. The enemy team was way better at responding to things than the first team was, but, I felt vulnerable the entire second game. The first game, I was way more confident as I knew we always either had the greater show of force, or could at least match theirs.
I did not like splitting up at all. Our ability to hit and run was completely eliminated. We never had a strong gank anywhere because the junglers were countering each other, more or less. I would take damage from the spawns causing me to go back more often and burn more heal potions. And because I was taking more damage, I couldn't gank as often. I was always too weak. The first game was all about hitting early, hitting hard and hitting often. The second game was all about farming, leveling and getting stronger individually. It made us all more vulnerable and fail miserably.
My proposal is to group up as junglers again. Give our blue to the first jungler and their red to the second. This puts us both at level two when the gank attempt is made on their jungler. Perhaps Naut should take more of a support build/role? Turns Noc into a supported carry that's not in bottom lane. That first game, I was getting good farm, but it was more in the form of enemy kills/assists than actual farm. So, grouping up is my choice.
That being said, I'm happy to give splitting up another chance. I know better than to ditch an entire strategy based on failing in its first attempt. So, I'm game for either way. But I'd like more of a game plan than "split up", because I don't see a way to avoid being weak, behind and ineffective in early game ganks because of this.
Also, the second game we were forced into team fighting because the enemy was snowballing getting a shit ton of kills on us. To stop their pushes, we had to group up. This knocked us completely out of our strategy and into theirs. Yes, we had a lot of lanes pushed and did some serious damage, but we were just hanging in there, while they were becoming exponentially stronger. Then they easily stepped on us and won. Sure, we were an ace and a push away from victory. But they would have had to do some really dumb things for it to play out that way. In which case, we wouldn't have won that game, they would have lost it.
Going ranked. We still have the issue of a single champ banning (singed) throwing us off. Yes, Gordon has trained other champs, but he HATES playing them and just gets angry when he's not Singed. If Singed gets banned/taken, who does he play? And are we ready for a ranked game when he is this other champ? Solution, we pick Singed first. Problem, in ranked, people know how to easily counter Singed and will. So every game we play, we know our top is countered. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that Gordon does not want to play ranked. He is comfortable playing Singed at top. He's happy there and is not interested in changing. He will, for the good of the team and to be a team player. But when all things are equal, he wants to play Singed. But is willing to suffer through a few games as other champs/lanes if his team wants him to. And he thinks ranked is over rated. It is just more difficult to secure a win and brings unwanted stress to a game which is supposed to be fun to play, not frustratingly hard.
I'd be game for trying to ban other champs and let Malph, Amumu, etc in the games. But in ranked, there's a high probability that there will be someone that knows how to use them. And that will hurt us. Scooty will argue that WE need to train them then so we can use them in the 2% of games where they aren't banned. But I'll counter with, I'd rather train/play with champs we know we can get. Become experts at those champs, THEN add the more obscure champs to our list. We get better through repetition. And you can't repeatedly play banned champs.
Double jungle. . . First game was really good. Lots of comms, good decisions and strong/fast/hard responses by our team. Second game, we were spread out, not responding well and somewhat less chatty in chat.
First game: Junglers stuck together. Every one of our ganks was a 3 v X fight. When someone was in trouble or getting ganked, we had a two man response team running around. Stranger said he was behind in farm, and I think we can perfect our farming to correct that. We had safety and power in our numbers and our ability to respond to situations.
Second game: Junglers split up. I felt very weak and vulnerable the whole game. Counter jungling was risky because I'm alone, behind in levels/farm and in enemy territory. When I tried to counter, they'd get me everything. So I was left sharing the farm of our jungle and fell even further behind. I couldn't/didn't respond to all situations because I was too weak to participate. When I did, I would die as I was low level, etc. The enemy team was way better at responding to things than the first team was, but, I felt vulnerable the entire second game. The first game, I was way more confident as I knew we always either had the greater show of force, or could at least match theirs.
I did not like splitting up at all. Our ability to hit and run was completely eliminated. We never had a strong gank anywhere because the junglers were countering each other, more or less. I would take damage from the spawns causing me to go back more often and burn more heal potions. And because I was taking more damage, I couldn't gank as often. I was always too weak. The first game was all about hitting early, hitting hard and hitting often. The second game was all about farming, leveling and getting stronger individually. It made us all more vulnerable and fail miserably.
My proposal is to group up as junglers again. Give our blue to the first jungler and their red to the second. This puts us both at level two when the gank attempt is made on their jungler. Perhaps Naut should take more of a support build/role? Turns Noc into a supported carry that's not in bottom lane. That first game, I was getting good farm, but it was more in the form of enemy kills/assists than actual farm. So, grouping up is my choice.
That being said, I'm happy to give splitting up another chance. I know better than to ditch an entire strategy based on failing in its first attempt. So, I'm game for either way. But I'd like more of a game plan than "split up", because I don't see a way to avoid being weak, behind and ineffective in early game ganks because of this.
Also, the second game we were forced into team fighting because the enemy was snowballing getting a shit ton of kills on us. To stop their pushes, we had to group up. This knocked us completely out of our strategy and into theirs. Yes, we had a lot of lanes pushed and did some serious damage, but we were just hanging in there, while they were becoming exponentially stronger. Then they easily stepped on us and won. Sure, we were an ace and a push away from victory. But they would have had to do some really dumb things for it to play out that way. In which case, we wouldn't have won that game, they would have lost it.
Going ranked. We still have the issue of a single champ banning (singed) throwing us off. Yes, Gordon has trained other champs, but he HATES playing them and just gets angry when he's not Singed. If Singed gets banned/taken, who does he play? And are we ready for a ranked game when he is this other champ? Solution, we pick Singed first. Problem, in ranked, people know how to easily counter Singed and will. So every game we play, we know our top is countered. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that Gordon does not want to play ranked. He is comfortable playing Singed at top. He's happy there and is not interested in changing. He will, for the good of the team and to be a team player. But when all things are equal, he wants to play Singed. But is willing to suffer through a few games as other champs/lanes if his team wants him to. And he thinks ranked is over rated. It is just more difficult to secure a win and brings unwanted stress to a game which is supposed to be fun to play, not frustratingly hard.
When Stranger first mentioned this idea, I pointed out that one of the two should be support. So giving Naut some additional support runes or whatever for gold isn't a bad idea. Particularly if Stranger uses him mainly to slow down enemies so Noc can cut them down.
I also prefer that you guys travel together. It's safer for you two, and more importantly is forcing the jungler to call for help and whomever leaves their lane to help is now losing CS.
I think this is a great strategy, but is this it? Are we no longer going to play/practice the meta? At some point, I'll need to bring someone other than Teemo to the show. We also need to plan and learn what to do when the enemy team properly counters this strategy. Do we abandon it for more of a laning approach?
Edited By Leisher on 1361377659
I also prefer that you guys travel together. It's safer for you two, and more importantly is forcing the jungler to call for help and whomever leaves their lane to help is now losing CS.
I think this is a great strategy, but is this it? Are we no longer going to play/practice the meta? At some point, I'll need to bring someone other than Teemo to the show. We also need to plan and learn what to do when the enemy team properly counters this strategy. Do we abandon it for more of a laning approach?
Edited By Leisher on 1361377659
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
Here's the changes to Darius' ult (on the PBE, so these could change):
-Instead of resetting if it kills an opponent, Noxian Guillotine ® is now able to be recast for 12 seconds after killing an opponent.
-Noxian Guillotine ® cooldown increased to 120/100/80 from 100/90/80.
Also on the PBE:
-Blade of the Ruined King is getting nerfed.
-Mater Yi's Alpha Strike no longer has an AD ratio
-Instead of resetting if it kills an opponent, Noxian Guillotine ® is now able to be recast for 12 seconds after killing an opponent.
-Noxian Guillotine ® cooldown increased to 120/100/80 from 100/90/80.
Also on the PBE:
-Blade of the Ruined King is getting nerfed.
-Mater Yi's Alpha Strike no longer has an AD ratio
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
We can't ban Kat, I play her very well. If shes in the game, shes going mid, so in that instance, i'll switch with Teemo and handle mid because really all you have to do is play passive to keep her from hurting you. Her ult does not instantly refresh either, If she kills an enemy her cooldown's for all abilities are decreased by 15. So she still has to wait a bit to pop her ult again.
Malphite does damage, if you read his kit, his abilities gain a damage bonus based on the amount of armor he has.
Malphite does damage, if you read his kit, his abilities gain a damage bonus based on the amount of armor he has.
We can't ban Kat, I play her very well.
No offense, but you say you play a lot of champs well, and it's not always the case.
True for us all.
If shes in the game, shes going mid, so in that instance, i'll switch with Teemo and handle mid
For those reading along at home, he means when she's on the enemy team and we're in blind (Kat on each team).
Here's the thing, we don't ban in normals. So the point is moot.
So if we don't ban her in ranked, and the enemy gets her that forces me into another lane and forces you to pick someone else. So who would you pick to mid against her at that point?
because really all you have to do is play passive to keep her from hurting you.
That's BS. Sorry, but that is used to define ANY champ in the game if they give you trouble. It's as logical as the line in Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels: "Would everyone please stop getting shot!"
We have to stop ignoring the fact that there are mismatches in the game. We always talk about swapping builds to match the situation, we need to do the same for lanes.
If you're one of the squishiest champs in the game, and you're solo laning against one of the burstiest and she just happens to have an ability that acts as a flash, you're fucked. If I'm stuck under my turret, she's harassing me, I'm missing farm, and my turret is going down. If I'm just out of turret range, she's flashing to me, bursting, forcing me to heal, etc.
Granted some skill will go into that equation, but generally speaking we need to be more conscious of mismatches and adjust.
Even if we didn't change lanes, early and often ganks might have helped keep her under control. Once I got a farm lead on her, it'd be a different story, but for that game, our junglers weren't doing well, so we were in a bad situation.
Had we gone into that match with you and I immediately switching, it might have worked out a bit better. No guarantees though.
Her ult does not instantly refresh either, If she kills an enemy her cooldown's for all abilities are decreased by 15. So she still has to wait a bit to pop her ult again.
It was said in comm last night that it did. Even if it doesn't, the cooldown rate is fucking stupid for someone so bursty. This was discussed as she killed me and Stranger under our turret with it, ran into her jungle and got into a fight with Noc and used it again. Total elapsed time was under a minute. That's why the question was asked in the first place.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
I would say that in my life I have played about 10 ranked games, and have lost 8 of them. We don't have a good enough team even after 2 years to carry a weak member, and we will never have one (since it has been 2 years and we've never gotten there). So what's the point?
And again, for like the 5th time, I don't mind going jungle. Just not every game. I like to break things up with a comfortable character to relieve the stress from trying to play a weak one.
+++++
Junglers split up, is that what happened 2nd game? I had assumed their lack of a jungler had you all screwed up, and I thought that was fine since it was only like 1 game in 10 where we fought a team with no jungler.
I specifically said not to split up. I said to travel together, split the kills, and kill spawns twice as fast. I am very angry that my instructions were ignored, and someone might get fired over this.
And again, for like the 5th time, I don't mind going jungle. Just not every game. I like to break things up with a comfortable character to relieve the stress from trying to play a weak one.
+++++
Junglers split up, is that what happened 2nd game? I had assumed their lack of a jungler had you all screwed up, and I thought that was fine since it was only like 1 game in 10 where we fought a team with no jungler.
I specifically said not to split up. I said to travel together, split the kills, and kill spawns twice as fast. I am very angry that my instructions were ignored, and someone might get fired over this.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
If Kat is taken from me, then I'll go irelia mid. Problem solved. I mean, I played against a poppy and a GP in bot lane, never lost my turret, blew theirs up quickly, and got a LOAD of kills that game with no problems what so ever as Kat. And how did I manage that? I played PASSIVE! Just because you can't harass the hell out of the enemy and take ALL the farm, doesn't mean you're now deemed worthless. It just means you have to wait until late game to gain any kind of power.
I miss spoke about her ult in comms. I answered your question quickly because I didn't wanna jabber on about it in the middle of the game, and just forgot to bring it back up afterwards. So my bad on that one.
I miss spoke about her ult in comms. I answered your question quickly because I didn't wanna jabber on about it in the middle of the game, and just forgot to bring it back up afterwards. So my bad on that one.
I was obviously talking about myself. People keep saying how I fall apart if I don't get Singed. That isn't my impression, but that must be the consensus.Cakedaddy wrote:Just out of curiosity, who is the weak player we have to carry? And be honest! I obviously am. . . so don't hold back. Don't be MEAN about it, but let the group know what you think, please.
My 20% success rate in ranked just reinforces it.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Now that's what I like to see ;D Had an awesome night of gaming tonight starting with the Renekton game.
So in other words. . . I'm ready to rock some bottom lane OP'ness tomorrow night! heheh
So with that I believe I've fortified my point in saying. . . Don't ban Malphite or Shen, because I'm very good with both of them as you can see. I won every single game I played as both of them heheh. I'll be going back to my normal practice routine with less OP champions now, oh and all of those games were in solo lane. All 10 of them. Its all I've played for weeks now.
Edited By Trooper on 1361432678