League of Legends - Trumped up Rock, Paper, Scissors
Cute. So you're equating me to your LoL play?GORDON wrote:Actually I think that TKV was put on the map by Gordon, Cake, Jav, and some others.Leisher wrote:Cake, Gordon, Jav, some others I don't remember, and cameos by me put TKV on the map though.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
Two more pros permabanned.
You've got to respect Riot banning high profile people. It sends a clear message.
You've got to respect Riot banning high profile people. It sends a clear message.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
Actually, we're sitting here wondering if you and Cake are getting online tonight or not.
And if you want to discuss your perceived slight, jump on and we'll chat. You know I'll give you an honest response. Here's a hint: You are incorrect in your assumption.
Edited By Leisher on 1358996816
And if you want to discuss your perceived slight, jump on and we'll chat. You know I'll give you an honest response. Here's a hint: You are incorrect in your assumption.
Edited By Leisher on 1358996816
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
Regarding last night's "Why can Teemo see me in the weeds?" issue I had.
I just watched the replay at that part.
Be careful of the middle weeds, bottom lane. It can appear you are well within the weed boundary, but you may still be visible. I wasn't invisible.
I just watched the replay at that part.
Be careful of the middle weeds, bottom lane. It can appear you are well within the weed boundary, but you may still be visible. I wasn't invisible.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
First to Scooty, Cake and Gordo nailed it, although in different tones.
Nobody has said they don't want to play with you. Not even remotely.
In fact, I know at least two of us thought you had quit the game. Not only were you not playing with us, but you weren't playing. We were looking for a 5th for a long time, and then Theo was brought in. He's a nice guy, meshed right in, and played with us for a while. Now you're back, which is great, but it does cause this issue.
An issue that I argued would occur if we ever had more than 5 people. I realize the pro teams have more than 5, but they also have a "1st team", and the alternates are very aware of their role. We don't have either, nor should we.
I honestly think we just need to move forward knowing we've got 6 guys who can play, and we go into evenings knowing that whomever is on last, they might sit. Theo seems to be on nightly. Ditto for Gordo. I'm on most nights. Stranger is 50/50. You and Cake are more like 70/30, but get on really late.
The night you posted this, it just happened to work out that Theo, Stranger, Gordo, and me were already logged on, and waiting. So you two were obviously last to get online, obviously Cake's going to
Last night, had you and Cake gotten on before 11:30, we would have had a 5 man team as Stranger wasn't on. However, Theo logged off between 10-11, so Cake, Gordo, and I wound up in TT.
So going forward, don't just assume that we don't want to play with you. It simply isn't true. And don't hop online to post passive aggressive stuff like that. I thought we agreed as a team that we need to cut that stuff out?
Onto the TT game from last night:
There were some odd things going on.
You might have been standing too close to the edge of the bush, but Cake and I watched their whole team multiple times at top being revealed in a bush. It was really odd. Teemo was attacking from the bush and it'd reveal him, but it would also show his teammates in the bush who weren't attacking.
Also, Cake attacked a jungle spawn, and I was recalling out just above it. I didn't do anything, and the jungle spawn came up and attacked me. Maybe I auto attacked it or something, but when I saw my screen flash because I was taking damage, and focused on what was going on Teemo wasn't autoattacking, and the monster was still there, so that was really on.
I think Cake said the jungle spawns did something else weird.
On a different note:
I'm going to toy with my rune page for ADC. I want to see what happens in a game if I bring heavy damage (full damage runes) into a game instead of having a mix of armor, MR, or AS.
If anyone can find the runes/masteries of pro ADCs, let me know. I see all the mobafire stuff, but most is outdated, and none are from the actual pros.
Also, I still think we need to really look at our team comp for 5s. We don't have to match the S2 meta, but we can't all be squishy unless we switch our style to more of a roaming team that baits and assassinates.
We're more of a head on team, so we need more tanky folks with aoe. We need more stuns/slows. For example, if Cake was jungling with Amumu, and we only ever fought team fights when his ult was up...Well, that's 2 seconds of uninterrupted damage we can drop on an enemy team. If we focus their damage dealers, fight's over. (We've had a few Amumu teams do this exact tactic to us...)
Oh, and one other thing I've been meaning to mention, a few of us need to work on our pathfinding. If the enemy is pushing our second tier mid turret, and you're heading to support, cutting through the jungle and closer to them then your teammates, isn't the best path to take. One thing that has really stood out to me lately is how one of us will get caught making that mistake, and then the rest try to help, and ACE! That's the sort of mistake that leads to more mistakes like entering fights one at a time. (We actually had this exact scenario happen last night.)
So basically, everyone should always be thinking, "Take the longer, but safe way to the standoff."
Nobody has said they don't want to play with you. Not even remotely.
In fact, I know at least two of us thought you had quit the game. Not only were you not playing with us, but you weren't playing. We were looking for a 5th for a long time, and then Theo was brought in. He's a nice guy, meshed right in, and played with us for a while. Now you're back, which is great, but it does cause this issue.
An issue that I argued would occur if we ever had more than 5 people. I realize the pro teams have more than 5, but they also have a "1st team", and the alternates are very aware of their role. We don't have either, nor should we.
I honestly think we just need to move forward knowing we've got 6 guys who can play, and we go into evenings knowing that whomever is on last, they might sit. Theo seems to be on nightly. Ditto for Gordo. I'm on most nights. Stranger is 50/50. You and Cake are more like 70/30, but get on really late.
The night you posted this, it just happened to work out that Theo, Stranger, Gordo, and me were already logged on, and waiting. So you two were obviously last to get online, obviously Cake's going to
Last night, had you and Cake gotten on before 11:30, we would have had a 5 man team as Stranger wasn't on. However, Theo logged off between 10-11, so Cake, Gordo, and I wound up in TT.
So going forward, don't just assume that we don't want to play with you. It simply isn't true. And don't hop online to post passive aggressive stuff like that. I thought we agreed as a team that we need to cut that stuff out?
Onto the TT game from last night:
There were some odd things going on.
You might have been standing too close to the edge of the bush, but Cake and I watched their whole team multiple times at top being revealed in a bush. It was really odd. Teemo was attacking from the bush and it'd reveal him, but it would also show his teammates in the bush who weren't attacking.
Also, Cake attacked a jungle spawn, and I was recalling out just above it. I didn't do anything, and the jungle spawn came up and attacked me. Maybe I auto attacked it or something, but when I saw my screen flash because I was taking damage, and focused on what was going on Teemo wasn't autoattacking, and the monster was still there, so that was really on.
I think Cake said the jungle spawns did something else weird.
On a different note:
I'm going to toy with my rune page for ADC. I want to see what happens in a game if I bring heavy damage (full damage runes) into a game instead of having a mix of armor, MR, or AS.
If anyone can find the runes/masteries of pro ADCs, let me know. I see all the mobafire stuff, but most is outdated, and none are from the actual pros.
Also, I still think we need to really look at our team comp for 5s. We don't have to match the S2 meta, but we can't all be squishy unless we switch our style to more of a roaming team that baits and assassinates.
We're more of a head on team, so we need more tanky folks with aoe. We need more stuns/slows. For example, if Cake was jungling with Amumu, and we only ever fought team fights when his ult was up...Well, that's 2 seconds of uninterrupted damage we can drop on an enemy team. If we focus their damage dealers, fight's over. (We've had a few Amumu teams do this exact tactic to us...)
Oh, and one other thing I've been meaning to mention, a few of us need to work on our pathfinding. If the enemy is pushing our second tier mid turret, and you're heading to support, cutting through the jungle and closer to them then your teammates, isn't the best path to take. One thing that has really stood out to me lately is how one of us will get caught making that mistake, and then the rest try to help, and ACE! That's the sort of mistake that leads to more mistakes like entering fights one at a time. (We actually had this exact scenario happen last night.)
So basically, everyone should always be thinking, "Take the longer, but safe way to the standoff."
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
http://www.lolpro.com/
http://solomid.net/
Those are the two sights that i commonly go to to find builds. They are Team Curse and Team Solo Mid's actual websights. They are two of the better and long standing North American teams that have been on the sceen and doing the whole world championship thing since season one. Alot of those builds are by the pro themselves or builds by other people that are approved by them or get lots of up votes from the community. So see what you think, maybe you will like it. Some of those guids are really well written.
And Leisher, im not sure if your rune setup is necessarily bad the last time i looked you had armor, AD, AD/pen, and attack speed. I think that is a pretty common setup for AD and you will prolly find that most of those builds will be pretty close to that.
I personally think your problem is Graves. Im sorry but you play Ezreal much better and have carried our team much better with him. I know you want to learn Graves but i don't think that it's working for you. Not saying that you can't learn him but he just doesn't seem to fit your playstyle or whatever. We all have the same thing with different champs. Im sure if any one of us was having a hard time with one champ we wouldn't force the issue to try and be good with them. Just move on to another champ, there are plenty of other ones out there. I know you used to own mid with MF, why haven't you ever tried her on bottom?
Don't take this as a personal attack, or a reason why we haven't been winning. Remember we are trying out new champs to expand our roster so its expected to have these things happen. Theo's Karthus and Arhi have been underwhelming, but if he's gonna play mid he needs to play something other than Akali. Alex is trying lots of new jungle champs and is expanding his roster real well, we just need to think of team comp when he goes tanky or assasin.
Its just that our AD carry IS the most important killing machine we have. And getting 5 kills a game just don't cut it. I really want you to think of trying someone else. You have proven that Ezreal is right up your ally, and you have the ability to rip off tons of kills with him. I have heard you many times say that someone just got away or they walked right into your ult and they walked away like nothing happened. Its just he's not your cup of tea, and i don't think you doing the 100 game challenge with him is gonna make any difference.
http://solomid.net/
Those are the two sights that i commonly go to to find builds. They are Team Curse and Team Solo Mid's actual websights. They are two of the better and long standing North American teams that have been on the sceen and doing the whole world championship thing since season one. Alot of those builds are by the pro themselves or builds by other people that are approved by them or get lots of up votes from the community. So see what you think, maybe you will like it. Some of those guids are really well written.
And Leisher, im not sure if your rune setup is necessarily bad the last time i looked you had armor, AD, AD/pen, and attack speed. I think that is a pretty common setup for AD and you will prolly find that most of those builds will be pretty close to that.
I personally think your problem is Graves. Im sorry but you play Ezreal much better and have carried our team much better with him. I know you want to learn Graves but i don't think that it's working for you. Not saying that you can't learn him but he just doesn't seem to fit your playstyle or whatever. We all have the same thing with different champs. Im sure if any one of us was having a hard time with one champ we wouldn't force the issue to try and be good with them. Just move on to another champ, there are plenty of other ones out there. I know you used to own mid with MF, why haven't you ever tried her on bottom?
Don't take this as a personal attack, or a reason why we haven't been winning. Remember we are trying out new champs to expand our roster so its expected to have these things happen. Theo's Karthus and Arhi have been underwhelming, but if he's gonna play mid he needs to play something other than Akali. Alex is trying lots of new jungle champs and is expanding his roster real well, we just need to think of team comp when he goes tanky or assasin.
Its just that our AD carry IS the most important killing machine we have. And getting 5 kills a game just don't cut it. I really want you to think of trying someone else. You have proven that Ezreal is right up your ally, and you have the ability to rip off tons of kills with him. I have heard you many times say that someone just got away or they walked right into your ult and they walked away like nothing happened. Its just he's not your cup of tea, and i don't think you doing the 100 game challenge with him is gonna make any difference.
WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
The other evening, I actually felt far more comfortable with Graves. Had a nice double digit kill game and we got some wins.
However, you're preaching to the choir.
I still do not have a love of playing him. It's coming. I'll admit I've started liking him more, but I don't feel him. I just don't like the character. I don't like his dance or sayings. I don't like his smoke circle. I don't love his Q. I also don't like his ult, which the more I think about, the more I realize that I've rarely died to a Graves ult.
I've pondered this a lot, and thought about the champs I've had lots of success playing with like Trynd, Teemo, Ez, MF, Fiora, etc. and I think I'm going to concentrate on champs that fit my strengths.
So take those 5 as my examples:
With Trynd and Fiora, it's melee and jungling. Both have escapability or a way to close the gap. Both have high damage. Both have a moment where they can't be targeted (in Trynd's case, he can, but you're a moron if you do). The playstyle is highly mobile, and there's a "Fuck it" attitude that comes with playing them where you throw yourself into fights thinking, "If I walk out of this alive, it's because they're all dead." This will be familiar to Stranger because it's how I played Brick in BL.
With Teemo, Ez, and MF it's all about the harass. Teemo and Ez have built in moves to escape, while MF's passive is about speed, and her harass shot has massive range. All three have AS or AS boosts. I like all three ults.
Those three also force me to stay more on the outside of fights. That's where they should be, especially MF.
Graves can't be that far out because he has no range. So I always end up closer and it allows teams to focus him (something we need to do better as a team).
So to sum up, if I got stuck playing Graves in ranked, it'd be fine. I know the character now. I've had some success with him, but he's not my first choice. Since we're playing normal games and essentially practicing, I think because I'm not loving playing him, and you don't love supporting him, let's switch things up:
So here's my options:
-Graves - I'm moving him to an occasional play just to stay familiar.
-Ez - No matter what, I'm going to play him in 1 out of every 3-5 games. I want to stay fresh with him, and right now he'd be my top choice if we played ranked.
-MF - I can bot with her, or we can completely throw off the meta, and I can take her mid again. I used to dominate mid champs with her, and the theory was that they don't have runes and such setup to deal with facing an AD champ in lane. Her problem is a lack of an AOE that isn't her ult, and no real escape move.
-Ashe - Similar to Ez, except missing a great escape move.
-Corki - He's slow to move, but has a good escape, more range than Graves, a lot of ults, and an aoe ability.
-Caitlyn - Brings Teemo's mushrooms...kinda, and she's fine in lane, but her ult is meh.
-Draven - I really feel he's gimmicky, but his ult is Ashe/Ez-like...
-Varus - I did enjoy playing him, although he misses a good escape move.
-Teemo - He's the most interesting because I can play him top, mid, or bot. Not getting double digit kills with him in a game is disappointing. I could go AD with him, OR...
(The rest is just going to be "for fun" speculation talk.)
Why don't we break the meta?
What if we had someone take a ranged AD mid, and let Teemo go bot as full AP?
Neither their mid, nor their ADC would have runes prepped to face damage from the opposite source thanks to people sticking with the meta. We could even let a tank go top, and have Gordo jungle as GP. The idea would be for bot and mid to play aggressive and really harass, while top plays defensive. Meanwhile, Gordo jungles until lvl 6. Then we're completely prepared for team fights.
Or Gordo stays top, Cake jungles with Amumu, and Theo plays Karthus who will have a field day ulting folks who basely escape me and Gordo's poison after Cake has ulted them.
Who says the ADC has to be in bot? Like I said earlier, we used to rock her in mid, and I tore folks up with her.
However, you're preaching to the choir.
I still do not have a love of playing him. It's coming. I'll admit I've started liking him more, but I don't feel him. I just don't like the character. I don't like his dance or sayings. I don't like his smoke circle. I don't love his Q. I also don't like his ult, which the more I think about, the more I realize that I've rarely died to a Graves ult.
I've pondered this a lot, and thought about the champs I've had lots of success playing with like Trynd, Teemo, Ez, MF, Fiora, etc. and I think I'm going to concentrate on champs that fit my strengths.
So take those 5 as my examples:
With Trynd and Fiora, it's melee and jungling. Both have escapability or a way to close the gap. Both have high damage. Both have a moment where they can't be targeted (in Trynd's case, he can, but you're a moron if you do). The playstyle is highly mobile, and there's a "Fuck it" attitude that comes with playing them where you throw yourself into fights thinking, "If I walk out of this alive, it's because they're all dead." This will be familiar to Stranger because it's how I played Brick in BL.
With Teemo, Ez, and MF it's all about the harass. Teemo and Ez have built in moves to escape, while MF's passive is about speed, and her harass shot has massive range. All three have AS or AS boosts. I like all three ults.
Those three also force me to stay more on the outside of fights. That's where they should be, especially MF.
Graves can't be that far out because he has no range. So I always end up closer and it allows teams to focus him (something we need to do better as a team).
So to sum up, if I got stuck playing Graves in ranked, it'd be fine. I know the character now. I've had some success with him, but he's not my first choice. Since we're playing normal games and essentially practicing, I think because I'm not loving playing him, and you don't love supporting him, let's switch things up:
So here's my options:
-Graves - I'm moving him to an occasional play just to stay familiar.
-Ez - No matter what, I'm going to play him in 1 out of every 3-5 games. I want to stay fresh with him, and right now he'd be my top choice if we played ranked.
-MF - I can bot with her, or we can completely throw off the meta, and I can take her mid again. I used to dominate mid champs with her, and the theory was that they don't have runes and such setup to deal with facing an AD champ in lane. Her problem is a lack of an AOE that isn't her ult, and no real escape move.
-Ashe - Similar to Ez, except missing a great escape move.
-Corki - He's slow to move, but has a good escape, more range than Graves, a lot of ults, and an aoe ability.
-Caitlyn - Brings Teemo's mushrooms...kinda, and she's fine in lane, but her ult is meh.
-Draven - I really feel he's gimmicky, but his ult is Ashe/Ez-like...
-Varus - I did enjoy playing him, although he misses a good escape move.
-Teemo - He's the most interesting because I can play him top, mid, or bot. Not getting double digit kills with him in a game is disappointing. I could go AD with him, OR...
(The rest is just going to be "for fun" speculation talk.)
Why don't we break the meta?
What if we had someone take a ranged AD mid, and let Teemo go bot as full AP?
Neither their mid, nor their ADC would have runes prepped to face damage from the opposite source thanks to people sticking with the meta. We could even let a tank go top, and have Gordo jungle as GP. The idea would be for bot and mid to play aggressive and really harass, while top plays defensive. Meanwhile, Gordo jungles until lvl 6. Then we're completely prepared for team fights.
Or Gordo stays top, Cake jungles with Amumu, and Theo plays Karthus who will have a field day ulting folks who basely escape me and Gordo's poison after Cake has ulted them.
Who says the ADC has to be in bot? Like I said earlier, we used to rock her in mid, and I tore folks up with her.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
Riot drops ban hammer on three more pros.
Two of those are LIFETIME bans!
Two of those are LIFETIME bans!
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
The risk of copying a pro's setup, is that we don't play like pros. There are runes/maseteries that scale better late game that they use, but, going heavier damage instead of the prefect page is better for us noobs. Early game, you MUST get last hits. If you don't get your last hits, you will be out farmed, out itemed, and then you are in trouble. You must get last hits! So, my rune page is a mix of as and ad. Enough AD that I hit about 90% of the last hits. It's uncommon for my opponent to be out CSing me. Also, I notice you buy your boots early. I often don't buy ANY boots until after I have my BF sword. Again, early game, I shouldn't need speed. I want last hits. But, you and I lane differently. I don't push my lane. I'm more comfortable on my side of the board. I don't let them push so hard that I'm under my turret losing last hits to it. But I'm not pushed out beyond the mid point either. Now I don't need the speed the boots bring because I'm close to my turret for safety. If there's an opportunity for a kill, I still have my flash and my dash to close distance. With an early BF sword, you melt the opponent as well. I don't always score that kill, but they ALWAYS go home, or play way back losing a lot of last hits. I like laning with support that can pull the enemy to me too. Blitz, Naut, Alistar, etc. This means I don't have to over extend (remember, no boots!) but can get lots of hits on the enemies. And this is why I like Graves, and why he may not work for you. Different play styles.
And I picked Graves because of how well he did in all the ranked games I played. Ez and Graves were the most popular carries I'd see.
Playing ranked games. Gordon and Leisher miss out on a lot of training potential because they won't solo queue ranked games. Of course you don't win them all. Of course there are idiots screaming/trash talking. But the information you leave with is invaluable. Watching more competitive play, having to participate in more competitive play, REALLY helps you step up your own play. Gordon mentioned that we just aren't getting any better. I propose it's because we don't put ourselves in a situation where we HAVE to play better. When we start losing, we go back to our safe champs and even then, it doesn't always work. Gordon is back to playing Singed only. Our techniques and strategies are easily blown when the smallest new thing is thrown in. I've said it a million times, you only get better when you play against people who are better than you.
And I picked Graves because of how well he did in all the ranked games I played. Ez and Graves were the most popular carries I'd see.
Playing ranked games. Gordon and Leisher miss out on a lot of training potential because they won't solo queue ranked games. Of course you don't win them all. Of course there are idiots screaming/trash talking. But the information you leave with is invaluable. Watching more competitive play, having to participate in more competitive play, REALLY helps you step up your own play. Gordon mentioned that we just aren't getting any better. I propose it's because we don't put ourselves in a situation where we HAVE to play better. When we start losing, we go back to our safe champs and even then, it doesn't always work. Gordon is back to playing Singed only. Our techniques and strategies are easily blown when the smallest new thing is thrown in. I've said it a million times, you only get better when you play against people who are better than you.
personally i like to look at pro builds to get a good general idea of what their general strategy with a champ is. Like what items do they start with, what skills do they level first and of course runes and masteries. But i take that into my own gaming style. I've got items that i like to build on my supports and jungle that most pros might suggest to build later or earlier, but the general idea of a build is there. There are rune setups that i have become comfortable with but im not opposed to trying something different just to see if i like something there. The big thing that i notice is that not every game should be the same exact build in the same exact order. You've gotta be able to adjust to what the other team is building and what you will be facing.
WORLD CHAMPIONS!!