I guess its worth a post, so here goes.
Support role:
Shen
Soraka
Whats my second role? Jungle? Mid? Top?
If I had a choice....
Jungle role:
Xin Zhao
Master Yi
Your thoughts?
League of Legends - Trumped up Rock, Paper, Scissors
100% cooldown hack, still worked as of 2 months ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwNVYQQrHks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwNVYQQrHks
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Although I'm going to get shit for doing this. . . .
I watched that game we played the other night where we were chasing that Shaco around in our jungle at the beginning of the game. First I wanted to see if I could tell if he was using a map hack. I couldn't really tell. There were some things that made me think he was, other times, had he had a map hack, he'd have scored a kill. So, don't know. But then I started watching Leisher's farming. What I found was that Leisher was getting really good farm. Even after chasing Shaco around multiple times, he had a good lead on Ez for CS. Also, By the time Ez scored his first champion kill, Leisher was 4/2/4. Ez was 1/2/2. Shaco had the gold lead for most of the game due to his early kills on many of us. By mid game, Leisher had even over taken Shaco. Shaco would regain the lead when they would start killing turrets. Then Leisher would get it back. Early game, Leisher had a BF sword and other items. The best Ez had was a brutilizer. By the time Leisher finished his BT, Ez still hadn't completed an item.
And it goes on from there. So, at no point was Leisher suffering from lack of farm. You were second in gold compared to all 10 players. You led Ez by a large margin (1.8k by mid game) the whole game. You scored more kills than him as well.
In fact, watching that game now, it was VERY winnable for us. Gold was even, kills were close, etc.
So, again, I'll be getting shit for breaking this game down and then blaming Leisher. But that's not my intent. My perception (and Strangers) was that our carry was not suffering. And the video, in my opinion, confirms this.
In trying to figure out what is going wrong and what we can do to fix it, I ended up finding nothing wrong. We played poorly, but other than that, everyone was doing their jobs.
Things of note:
We aren't hitting dragon enough. I think we've improved on wards, we need to fix dragon now. Watching the gold count through that game, Dragon is huge. You can be losing the game in kills/turrets, but a dragon or two catches you right back up in gold. Watching the affect it had on gold scores. . . we have to kill it more.
I really think Stranger is willing to sacrifice our carry for kills. One fight, Leisher killed Nid and fell back to his turret. Stranger came up while Shaco dove the turret. Just as he kills Leisher, Stranger ults and stuns Shaco under the turret and then kills Shaco. His ult was cooled down the whole time. Dude. Steal the kills, but don't let the carry die too!!
I watched that game we played the other night where we were chasing that Shaco around in our jungle at the beginning of the game. First I wanted to see if I could tell if he was using a map hack. I couldn't really tell. There were some things that made me think he was, other times, had he had a map hack, he'd have scored a kill. So, don't know. But then I started watching Leisher's farming. What I found was that Leisher was getting really good farm. Even after chasing Shaco around multiple times, he had a good lead on Ez for CS. Also, By the time Ez scored his first champion kill, Leisher was 4/2/4. Ez was 1/2/2. Shaco had the gold lead for most of the game due to his early kills on many of us. By mid game, Leisher had even over taken Shaco. Shaco would regain the lead when they would start killing turrets. Then Leisher would get it back. Early game, Leisher had a BF sword and other items. The best Ez had was a brutilizer. By the time Leisher finished his BT, Ez still hadn't completed an item.
And it goes on from there. So, at no point was Leisher suffering from lack of farm. You were second in gold compared to all 10 players. You led Ez by a large margin (1.8k by mid game) the whole game. You scored more kills than him as well.
In fact, watching that game now, it was VERY winnable for us. Gold was even, kills were close, etc.
So, again, I'll be getting shit for breaking this game down and then blaming Leisher. But that's not my intent. My perception (and Strangers) was that our carry was not suffering. And the video, in my opinion, confirms this.
In trying to figure out what is going wrong and what we can do to fix it, I ended up finding nothing wrong. We played poorly, but other than that, everyone was doing their jobs.
Things of note:
We aren't hitting dragon enough. I think we've improved on wards, we need to fix dragon now. Watching the gold count through that game, Dragon is huge. You can be losing the game in kills/turrets, but a dragon or two catches you right back up in gold. Watching the affect it had on gold scores. . . we have to kill it more.
I really think Stranger is willing to sacrifice our carry for kills. One fight, Leisher killed Nid and fell back to his turret. Stranger came up while Shaco dove the turret. Just as he kills Leisher, Stranger ults and stuns Shaco under the turret and then kills Shaco. His ult was cooled down the whole time. Dude. Steal the kills, but don't let the carry die too!!
Although I'm going to get shit for doing this. . . .
There's a reason for that...
I watched that game we played the other night where we were chasing that Shaco around in our jungle at the beginning of the game. First I wanted to see if I could tell if he was using a map hack. I couldn't really tell. There were some things that made me think he was, other times, had he had a map hack, he'd have scored a kill. So, don't know. But then I started watching Leisher's farming. What I found was that Leisher was getting really good farm. Even after chasing Shaco around multiple times, he had a good lead on Ez for CS. Also, By the time Ez scored his first champion kill, Leisher was 4/2/4. Ez was 1/2/2. Shaco had the gold lead for most of the game due to his early kills on many of us. By mid game, Leisher had even over taken Shaco. Shaco would regain the lead when they would start killing turrets. Then Leisher would get it back. Early game, Leisher had a BF sword and other items. The best Ez had was a brutilizer. By the time Leisher finished his BT, Ez still hadn't completed an item.
And it goes on from there. So, at no point was Leisher suffering from lack of farm. You were second in gold compared to all 10 players. You led Ez by a large margin (1.8k by mid game) the whole game. You scored more kills than him as well.
In fact, watching that game now, it was VERY winnable for us. Gold was even, kills were close, etc.
So, again, I'll be getting shit for breaking this game down and then blaming Leisher. But that's not my intent. My perception (and Strangers) was that our carry was not suffering. And the video, in my opinion, confirms this.
In trying to figure out what is going wrong and what we can do to fix it, I ended up finding nothing wrong. We played poorly, but other than that, everyone was doing their jobs.
My complaint for that game wasn't farm, although I did reference it in my argument about what going into that jungle was costing me. Go read my statement again, and you'll see I was blanket-including everything to make my point. You picked one word out of my whole argument, and wrote that post about that one word. Why would I give you shit about that...?
But hey, that loss was all me. Everyone else played perfectly.
Anyway, although I'm going to get shit for doing this...
Lately, I'm your scapegoat, and it's getting tiresome. It's part of the reason playing as Graves is so frustrating. When I said this isn't fun, it wasn't about Graves, it was about you. You and I are a catch 22. I'm going to get frustrated and curse because I'm competitive. So are you. However, you openly, and very passive aggressively questioning me in the middle of the game pisses me off. So now I'm getting more pissed, and will immediately get frustrated earlier in the next game because I know what's coming. And it'll either come during the game or after. Oh, and I know our teammates love to hear us gripe, just like we loved hearing Scooty fight with Hitler or opponents (although at least that was entertaining in its own way) or hearing you fight with Scooty.
We've played LoL for over a year now, and I've heard you blame Hitler, Gordo, Stranger, Scooty, Me, and lately even Theo as Karthus for our poor showings in games. This isn't a secret. Everyone knows this, and at times you've been absolutely right.
I've had terrible nights. Remember that time I was gone for a week, and how bad I was for two days upon my return? All those losses were my fault. I know of at least one game where I was Ezreal where I felt a single play of mine late game caused us to lose. Recently, I haven't felt like I'm holding my own as Graves, and rightly so. I don't have any sort of feel for his damage, or where he should be in fights, but I am developing it. Do I get lost trying to farm? Yes, and this is especially a problem with Graves because I don't feel like I'm doing any damage with him. Look at my kill numbers. I joked two weeks ago that I'm playing a support Graves, and I think it's true. My assists are through the fucking roof, but my kills are way down and my ult seems weaker than it should be(?). That's why I feel it's so important to continuously farm with him, and why I get lost doing it. Another point on the game you tried to argue against me above: I was still using abilities to clear minion waves. So I was mowing them down rapidly. If I was not doing that, I might have had mana for the Shaco chase, and probably would've had much lower farm numbers. However, that wasn't why we lost.
As for the rest of us...
Hitler is Hitler.
Theo is an awesome Akali, but his WuKong isn't the best we've seen. For some reason, we've got him playing a low mobility mid champ who seems to be the exact opposite playstyle that he normally plays.
Stranger sucked when he first showed up. I know we lost games due to him, and so does he. It's part of the game. Hell, to this day TT is simply not his thing.
Scooty is our resident teen angst guy. I had a better chance of hitting the lottery without buying a ticket than I did of entering a game and not seeing Scooty verbally fight with a teammate or enemy. Plus, he had a very lone wolf style of play that simply did not fit our team's needs.
Gordo is Singed. Has been. Will be. He's branching out with other champs, but his frustration level gets too high to stick with them (something I can relate to a LOT lately), plus it's no fun to lose, especially when you feel out of sorts, and like you're hurting your team by not playing well with a champ. His biggest issue? Taking criticism. I can safely point that out, because I'm the same way, and as I'm learning, so is Cake. Maybe it's an old guy thing?
And then there's you. When has it ever been your fault?
I'll start by saying that at no time have you ever suggested you're the perfect player. Fair is fair, and I'd never suggest that you're claiming to be the best player on the team or that you don't make mistakes or cost us games. Although, I think you do have a hard time seeing flaws in your game or accepting them.
You're a much stronger player out of the jungle than in lane. Not that I think you suck in lane, but your jungle game is the best on the team. And if I'm being 100% honest, you have sucked in lane. I remember a time when you were getting dominated, and very frustrated in mid. You are miles better now, but I want to make sure you realize that you've had growing pains and frustrations too. Remember when Gordo and I used to joke about you feeding on the old TT? You were. You got pissed because you didn't think you were, and you got better, but you definitely had problems there.
There isn't a single person I listed who I don't enjoy playing with, and while we all may have individual dustups from time to time, it's to be expected because this is a competitive game. If you're not getting heated, you aren't competing hard enough.
That being said, our biggest weakness is our team, and Cake, I blame you. That might be unfair, but you are our leader in game.
Now it doesn't ALL fall on you. We all have to try and be more aware of and better at our individual roles, and accepting of any criticism that our teammates offer us whether that be about positioning, our builds, build order, farming, team fighting, etc. I think one of our biggest issues is accepting that we're cogs in a machine, not the whole machine itself. We all have fallen prey to the "Yeah, but I did this during this game", while our Nexus is being destroyed. Seriously, lately we've played like 5 individuals. You claim I'm off farming alone, and that's a problem, but I'm watching people farm out from under my nose, all of us going in different directions all the time, not calling primaries (yes, they occasionally get called, but also mostly ignored), etc. I mean I could go on and on with this list. So could you, so why are you expending so much energy always focusing on one person at any given time?
Anyway, I think it's your job to reign in our issues, and our job to listen (even Gordo). Here's what I currently see as our issues:
1. Our team leader is all too eager to try and assign blame after games. What's funny is that the person taking the blame doesn't vary game by game, but rather is month to month or quarter to quarter. Plus, the whole team isn't helped by listening to a 20 minute argument.
The bottom line is that no one person is losing us games. It's a team effort, so why are we engaging in pointless fights post game?
2. Passive aggressive is not a good form of communication within a team. (That's for ALL of us.)
3. Our team comp is flawed. We've had no initiator lately (the weakest part of our game). We also have no CC. I don't consider Veigar's circle of stun to count because I don't think I see a single opponent actually be stunned by it. (The amount of people who flashed or used an ability to escape that circle the last few nights is mind boggling. I think it's bullshit considering it's a skill shot. Meanwhile, Amumu's circle has nothing to do with skill, but you can't escape it.) We need champs who compliment one another. There's a reason the best junglers have stuns and/or ways to close gaps quickly.
This also involves going all out with our assigned roles. That's something I took to heart, and why I've been concerned with my farm, learning champs, getting kills, trying to not put myself in a position to die, etc. That's my job. It's why I questioned Stranger for taking red the whole game when he was Mundo. I honestly didn't know if that was correct, didn't matter, or wrong? All I know is that typically the ADC is fed that, which is why I asked. It's why I pointed out that Scooty shouldn't be leaving the ADC during laning phase unless it's absolutely ok to do that (and often it wasn't). It's why I don't go near the jungle during laning, because I know those are for my jungler.
4. We need one voice to say what we're doing. It's ok if everyone announces things like "clearing bot", "warding baron", etc. However, the team leader needs to have authority to veto or order us elsewhere. That's you Cake. (That's something previously decided, that seems to have been forgotten.) You need to stop fighting with people in game, and yes I realize that means we all need to stop fighting with you too. Objections should be heard, but we shouldn't fight about them.
5. We need to stop being individuals, and be a team. Why aren't we ever baiting anyone? Who is organizing us when laning ends? When does laning end? Who is telling us where to place wards and ensuring that our jungler has purchased pink eye? When should we hit dragon? Baron? Push lanes? Etc. Granted a LOT of this will come from individual reads, and information from others, but our leader has to get us focused better. When we get rolling, we're coordinated and hard to stop. When we run around doing our own thing, even bad players kick our ass.
6. Fighting correctly. We don't do it. We're chasing. Sometimes, that's ok, most times, not so much. How often have we walked into traps lately compared to our winning streak? We've got to get it through our heads that champion kills aren't the game. If you sent someone packing to go heal, that's a win. If they used flash to get away, that's a win. The "got to get the kill" mindset is kicking our ass, and it's infectious.
I had more, but I'm taking off for the day. I think my novel gets the point across anyway. Can we please stop bickering over moments in fucking random games and start focusing on what our team needs to do to fix things?
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
My greatest weakness in this game is that everyone else on my team sucks.
That being said,
I can take criticism... but when it is followed by laughing that just pushes my buttons. Doesn't stop me from playing, but be prepared for me to get momentarily pissed if you laugh at me when I make a mistake.
NOW.................................
Leisher. It is my impression, and I may be wrong, that you wrongly perceive you are being criticized by Cake, when that isn't my impression at all. It is my opinion that there is some "reading between the lines" going on by you that Cake doesn't intend. So, I hope that clears that up a little. I don't think I have ever heard Cake come out and say, or imply, that you were fucking up your lane, or that you sucked, or anything else. Things get discussed post-game, but I have never heard any personal attacks or inappropriate, non-joking snark from him directed at you.
Except for when he chuckles when I make an error. That's just fucked up.
Edited By GORDON on 1358198591
That being said,
I can take criticism... but when it is followed by laughing that just pushes my buttons. Doesn't stop me from playing, but be prepared for me to get momentarily pissed if you laugh at me when I make a mistake.
NOW.................................
Leisher. It is my impression, and I may be wrong, that you wrongly perceive you are being criticized by Cake, when that isn't my impression at all. It is my opinion that there is some "reading between the lines" going on by you that Cake doesn't intend. So, I hope that clears that up a little. I don't think I have ever heard Cake come out and say, or imply, that you were fucking up your lane, or that you sucked, or anything else. Things get discussed post-game, but I have never heard any personal attacks or inappropriate, non-joking snark from him directed at you.
Except for when he chuckles when I make an error. That's just fucked up.
Edited By GORDON on 1358198591
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
And personally.................
I still think everyone is cheating. I just can't fathom how we can randomly do great for a month at a time, then randomly just get completely crushed by everyone 10 games in a row like we weren't even trying.
Every online game has been hacked, since the beginning of online games. The successful cheaters are the ones who keep it under the radar. There is no reason for this game to be special.
Edited By GORDON on 1358199073
I still think everyone is cheating. I just can't fathom how we can randomly do great for a month at a time, then randomly just get completely crushed by everyone 10 games in a row like we weren't even trying.
Every online game has been hacked, since the beginning of online games. The successful cheaters are the ones who keep it under the radar. There is no reason for this game to be special.
Edited By GORDON on 1358199073
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
LoL was big with a few of my buddies back in school. A couple reasons I don't play is because:
1) the people who tended to be very good at it either dropped loads more time on it than anyone else or have some savant-like understanding of RTS, and I'm not a huge RTS fan
2) getting a proper team dynamic is killer and requires lots of effort more often than not
In any team game, from LoL to UO to BL2 to fucking bridge, getting people to focus as a unit is a pain in the ass. Some games are easier than others. My school buddies, who sat in the same room with each during LANs, I don't think they ever ended a LoL game without at least one dude ragging on his teammate about how he almost fucked up that game and lot it for everyone. Frustration makes it too easy to lose focus, and more often than not, I saw the winners frustrated that they hadn't won to their satisfaction; it was worse when they lost.
Even in BL2, unless a significant threat was upon us, we were sometimes hard pressed to fight as a cohesive unit. Boss fights, arena fights, anything big that got our attention, we did ok (except when Terramorphus had us outgunned). Other times, we had half the team stumbling around like they had ADHD.
From the dude that thinks a younger extended family member slipped a sedative into his drink last Thanksgiving.
Edited By Malcolm on 1358201118
1) the people who tended to be very good at it either dropped loads more time on it than anyone else or have some savant-like understanding of RTS, and I'm not a huge RTS fan
2) getting a proper team dynamic is killer and requires lots of effort more often than not
In any team game, from LoL to UO to BL2 to fucking bridge, getting people to focus as a unit is a pain in the ass. Some games are easier than others. My school buddies, who sat in the same room with each during LANs, I don't think they ever ended a LoL game without at least one dude ragging on his teammate about how he almost fucked up that game and lot it for everyone. Frustration makes it too easy to lose focus, and more often than not, I saw the winners frustrated that they hadn't won to their satisfaction; it was worse when they lost.
Even in BL2, unless a significant threat was upon us, we were sometimes hard pressed to fight as a cohesive unit. Boss fights, arena fights, anything big that got our attention, we did ok (except when Terramorphus had us outgunned). Other times, we had half the team stumbling around like they had ADHD.
I still think everyone is cheating.
From the dude that thinks a younger extended family member slipped a sedative into his drink last Thanksgiving.
Edited By Malcolm on 1358201118
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
I believe that's a direct quote from the Boondock's Gin Rummy, isn't it? You can always buy the anti-date rape chemical thing that one dude's pushing.
Edited By Malcolm on 1358208832
Edited By Malcolm on 1358208832
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Indeed, but the Boondock's writer was mocking the right's claim that there were WMD's in Iraq by using that line.Malcolm wrote:I believe that's a direct quote from the Boondock's Gin Rummy, isn't it? You can always buy the anti-date rape chemical thing that one dude's pushing.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Cake can't lead the team when everybody gets pissy and rage quits, or starts a little bitch fight in chat because they think he's blaming you. I'm a repeat offender of that to be honest, but I'm learning to handle it. Take what he says for what it is, either change and do what he says, or don't. Either way, quit fighting with him because he can't effectively run the team when everybody just wants to fight him on every single thing that comes out of his mouth, taking it as a personal attack or blame for the loss of the entire game..... Again, I've been the KING of doing this.... But as I stated earlier, you just have to take it for what it is and move onto the next game. 8 times out of 10 hes right, and his game history reflects it.... Cake has played hundreds and hundreds more games than all of us. Combine... So if you think you know better than him, odds are you're sorely mistaken. Its hard to admit you're wrong especially after we get our asses handed to us in-game... I sure know I hate being told what I did wrong, but its not fair of us to ask Cake to lead our team when all we want to do is give him shit for trying to help us......
I'll also mention, I think Cake can handle the counter criticism a tad better. We're not TRYING to start any fights, but I think everyone should be entitled to their reasoning for certain actions under speculation... It just doesn't play out that way unfortunately, when we counter Cakes criticism it comes out with an obvious sign of irritation... Just calm the hell down, and talk. Its just a frickin game, after all......
Honestly, I think somebody else should take the role of leader for a game or two, so you too can feel the heat of being depended on by everyone on the team to have the answers to every damn problem that arises.... And then get insulted and treated like shit when everyone takes the criticism THEY ASKED FOR TO BEGIN WITH, as some kind of bullshit personal attack. As stated about 3 times thus far, I'm a constant offender of this as everyone else is.... Seriously, next person to fight with Cake (Our leader) gets their asses kicked. This team can no longer handle a democracy... Screw fair treatment, what the leader says, goes.... This is Soviet TKV now, so keep your mouth shut and listen to the leader! He has way more experience in almost every aspect of the game, therefore you have no reason to talk back unless otherwise instructed to do so. This way, we no longer have to deal with any of us getting butthurt thus causing a whole heap of bad vibes between teammates. Or, nobody leads, we never improve, and we never win. Idk about you, but personally I'd rather shut my mouth, keep the peace, and take the wise advice of my elders....
I'll also mention, I think Cake can handle the counter criticism a tad better. We're not TRYING to start any fights, but I think everyone should be entitled to their reasoning for certain actions under speculation... It just doesn't play out that way unfortunately, when we counter Cakes criticism it comes out with an obvious sign of irritation... Just calm the hell down, and talk. Its just a frickin game, after all......
Honestly, I think somebody else should take the role of leader for a game or two, so you too can feel the heat of being depended on by everyone on the team to have the answers to every damn problem that arises.... And then get insulted and treated like shit when everyone takes the criticism THEY ASKED FOR TO BEGIN WITH, as some kind of bullshit personal attack. As stated about 3 times thus far, I'm a constant offender of this as everyone else is.... Seriously, next person to fight with Cake (Our leader) gets their asses kicked. This team can no longer handle a democracy... Screw fair treatment, what the leader says, goes.... This is Soviet TKV now, so keep your mouth shut and listen to the leader! He has way more experience in almost every aspect of the game, therefore you have no reason to talk back unless otherwise instructed to do so. This way, we no longer have to deal with any of us getting butthurt thus causing a whole heap of bad vibes between teammates. Or, nobody leads, we never improve, and we never win. Idk about you, but personally I'd rather shut my mouth, keep the peace, and take the wise advice of my elders....
Cakedaddy wrote:Quit sucking up.
That's for Scooty's post.
I'm not feuding with Cake or anything like that. None of my previous post was written in anger at all.
Cake and I have chatted many times about LoL, and we both come from a position of caring. Thus, we get frustrated. We both know nothing is personal. I'm never mad at him, despite how we sound in game.
We simply happen to be the most vocal about it at this time. There isn't anyone, save for Theo (give him time), who hasn't been vocal or argued with teammates.
The last week has been especially difficult with Theo's issue, Scooty trying support, me learning Graves, us being put against some quality teams, etc.
I, like everyone else, get frustrated when I feel I'm not pulling my weight, and my frustration just grows when questions start getting thrown around in game. Especially, when I feel it's unjust.
I know I groan or curse (like Gordo's patented sigh), and sometimes Cake thinks it's frustration at him, but it's not. I get frustrated with my own play or sometimes a teammate's play, but NEVER at them personally. I know Cake feels the same, and I hope the other 4 are in the same mind frame.
Let's get on Tuesday, and follow our own rules.
-Communicate
-Don't chase
-Let Cake call targets
-Keep your damage dealers alive and fed
-Etc.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
Most definitely was not trying to target you in anyway there, I think we all (especially including myself) could handle the criticism and talks better.
Tuesday should be a good night! Some of us have had a days break from the game, so we should all be able to log on and play with a fresh attitude.
I just hope we can frickin win one eh? ;D We could forsure go for a confidence boost....
Tuesday should be a good night! Some of us have had a days break from the game, so we should all be able to log on and play with a fresh attitude.
I just hope we can frickin win one eh? ;D We could forsure go for a confidence boost....
I tried playing him a little bit, but didn't play very long. He's very easily shut down and countered. I think most of the problem is, we see Darius and it immediately puts you in a losing frame of mind and our play reflects that. I can only say that in ANY ranked game I've played, Darius plays as big a role as any other champ. Isn't rapid firing his ult, etc. In fact, you don't see Darius in many ranked games at all. Not banned and not played. It's kind of like Trynd. If you don't know how to counter him, he's going to win the game for you.
Also, Darius is a top lane champ. So. .. . Ya, why don't you? I guess the next time he's free, try playing with him and see how people shut you down. Then do that. But, and I'm not being a smart ass, you'll have to play him against real people. Bots are dumb and won't counter him properly.
There are few champions we know how to specifically play against or counter. I'm willing to be that we play the same 90% of the time regardless of who our enemy is. When you are top, do you do anything different when playing against a Warwick than you do against a Darious? Or a Nasus? Or any other champ? There are probably two champions on your list that you actively play differently against. And by differently, it's probably more cautious because you are afraid of them. We all play differently when we are laning against a Blitz, because that obvious. And Nidalee. We know to move a little more and to be behind minions. But what about playing against and Ashe vs a Varus. Or Ez. Etc. I bet most of us play exactly the same. Farm minions, throw some stuff at them, etc. But over all, nothing special or different about one enemy champ over another.
I'm no expert and I don't know how to counter every single champion out there. But I do pay attention to, and learn different laning techniques. I used to get absolutely owned by any flashing champ in mid. I used to say that at the beginning of the games. "I am not going to do well against Kat, or Akali, or Ahri, etc". But those are the games that I'd always pay more attention to. I'd study their champ's cool downs and combos. I can now say that I don't have a problem laning against Kat. I know how to dodge her Q. I know her E's range. I can now anticipate her more and have actually learned that being aggressive against her is the best counter. I don't dive her and hit constantly. I push up the sides (this avoids her Q) and poke her more. In summary, I just have a better understanding of her abilities and how to avoid them, or even take advantage of her when she screws one up. But the biggest thing is, learning to avoid her Q. That's her poke. Avoid her poke and I don't take damage from her any more. This makes her try to be more aggressive. Now she starts diving me with her E and W. I know the range of that and try to anticipate where she's going to end up. I stun and drop my W on that spot. When done right, I've just done about 30% more damage to her than she did me. Point is, instead of being disheartened, or whatever by facing her, I studied her. I learned her, and now I can counter her.
I don't know the counter to Darius. I don't lane against him. I can only say that in most ranked games, or even nonranked, Darius is no more a factor than any other champ. Yes, one will have a good game here and there, but so does ever other champ. I know Jayce would be an excellent counter because he has such long range that you don't ever have to be close to him. But, if you don't know Dar is coming, you don't know to take Jayce. And Jayce isn't a 'win button' that would make him and auto pick every game. Plus, Jayce is all about knowing when to go melee and when to stay ranged and landing those skill shots.
In summary, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Study them. Learn them. Find their weakness and counter them. And you record every game, start watching them. Watch what they do and when. That's what I do. I don't watch every game I record. But if something big happens, or if I have trouble with something, I watch it to see where I screwed up. Then I change that and the next encounter is better.
Singed isn't an automatic loss, and neither is Darius. We just need to learn how to play against them and make more intelligent decisions during fights.
We lost that game against Singed and Darius because we weren't fighting as a team. We weren't responding as a team. And we made bad choices (either on accident or on purpose. . .). We didn't lose to their OP'ness, we lost because we made bad choices. If Singed was OP and an automatic win. . . why don't we win every game?!
Also, Darius is a top lane champ. So. .. . Ya, why don't you?
I guess the next time he's free, try playing with him and see how people shut you down. Then do that. But, and I'm not being a smart ass, you'll have to play him against real people. Bots are dumb and won't counter him properly.There are few champions we know how to specifically play against or counter. I'm willing to be that we play the same 90% of the time regardless of who our enemy is. When you are top, do you do anything different when playing against a Warwick than you do against a Darious? Or a Nasus? Or any other champ? There are probably two champions on your list that you actively play differently against. And by differently, it's probably more cautious because you are afraid of them. We all play differently when we are laning against a Blitz, because that obvious. And Nidalee. We know to move a little more and to be behind minions. But what about playing against and Ashe vs a Varus. Or Ez. Etc. I bet most of us play exactly the same. Farm minions, throw some stuff at them, etc. But over all, nothing special or different about one enemy champ over another.
I'm no expert and I don't know how to counter every single champion out there. But I do pay attention to, and learn different laning techniques. I used to get absolutely owned by any flashing champ in mid. I used to say that at the beginning of the games. "I am not going to do well against Kat, or Akali, or Ahri, etc". But those are the games that I'd always pay more attention to. I'd study their champ's cool downs and combos. I can now say that I don't have a problem laning against Kat. I know how to dodge her Q. I know her E's range. I can now anticipate her more and have actually learned that being aggressive against her is the best counter. I don't dive her and hit constantly. I push up the sides (this avoids her Q) and poke her more. In summary, I just have a better understanding of her abilities and how to avoid them, or even take advantage of her when she screws one up. But the biggest thing is, learning to avoid her Q. That's her poke. Avoid her poke and I don't take damage from her any more. This makes her try to be more aggressive. Now she starts diving me with her E and W. I know the range of that and try to anticipate where she's going to end up. I stun and drop my W on that spot. When done right, I've just done about 30% more damage to her than she did me. Point is, instead of being disheartened, or whatever by facing her, I studied her. I learned her, and now I can counter her.
I don't know the counter to Darius. I don't lane against him. I can only say that in most ranked games, or even nonranked, Darius is no more a factor than any other champ. Yes, one will have a good game here and there, but so does ever other champ. I know Jayce would be an excellent counter because he has such long range that you don't ever have to be close to him. But, if you don't know Dar is coming, you don't know to take Jayce. And Jayce isn't a 'win button' that would make him and auto pick every game. Plus, Jayce is all about knowing when to go melee and when to stay ranged and landing those skill shots.
In summary, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Study them. Learn them. Find their weakness and counter them. And you record every game, start watching them. Watch what they do and when. That's what I do. I don't watch every game I record. But if something big happens, or if I have trouble with something, I watch it to see where I screwed up. Then I change that and the next encounter is better.
Singed isn't an automatic loss, and neither is Darius. We just need to learn how to play against them and make more intelligent decisions during fights.
We lost that game against Singed and Darius because we weren't fighting as a team. We weren't responding as a team. And we made bad choices (either on accident or on purpose. . .). We didn't lose to their OP'ness, we lost because we made bad choices. If Singed was OP and an automatic win. . . why don't we win every game?!
Oh, and because I can. . . . I've recorded 206+ games. Darius (plus games that have players with "dari" in their names) was in 40 of them. Of the 40, we won about 15 of them. Some of the 40 were games where I was with randoms and you guys weren't involved (not included in the 15 above. That 15 represents when our team (at least 4 of us or a TT game) faced a darius). And games where I was with random players and a Darious was involved, about half of them had Darius on the losing team, and half on the winning team. There were games where he'd go 15/4/12 and his team would lose (including some of our games) and there were games where he'd go 4/6/7 and win (one of our TT games where their Teemo had 26 kills).
I seriously do not see a trend with Darius beating us. And if Darius games have an edge, it's because we give him one. Before the game even starts, morale is down and "surrender" is mentioned.
It may be 'perceived' that Darius beats us, but the reality is, he doesn't. We remember when Darius beats us. At the end of the game "Fucking Darius OP bullshit". At the end of games we win against Darius "Hurray. We are awesome!". No mention of "Holy shit, we just beat Darius and that NEVER happens!". We forget we were even playing one.
Edited By Cakedaddy on 1358231505
I seriously do not see a trend with Darius beating us. And if Darius games have an edge, it's because we give him one. Before the game even starts, morale is down and "surrender" is mentioned.
It may be 'perceived' that Darius beats us, but the reality is, he doesn't. We remember when Darius beats us. At the end of the game "Fucking Darius OP bullshit". At the end of games we win against Darius "Hurray. We are awesome!". No mention of "Holy shit, we just beat Darius and that NEVER happens!". We forget we were even playing one.
Edited By Cakedaddy on 1358231505
Ok, the other stuff. . . .
I have asked MANY times to point out what I'm doing wrong. Believe me, I WANT to know. Even when I don't agree (Noc feeding top on TT), I still listen and go out of my way to prove that I don't, or whatever. Bottom line, it becomes my mission to not feed top, which is the ultimate goal. So whether I agree or not is irrelevant. Know that I'm working on not doing what you say I'm doing wrong. So, fire away. I'll be the first to admit that my Viegar has sucked lately. I had a good run with him before Theo, but lately, it's not there. I'm adequate some games, below that in others. I've since switched to Ziggs and am doing WAY better with him. Not sure why. I went Veigar back in the day because my Ziggs was sucking. . . For what ever reason, I can't land the skill shots with Veigar the way I can with Ziggs right now. I also think people have gotten better at countering Veigar's stun. I used to be able to drop it with the enemy inside of it and they'd still hit it. They don't any more. This forces me to drop the edge of the circle right on the enemy. Much more of a skill shot than before. I've been practicing that, but have work to do still. I AM getting better at leading with my W though so it has a better chance of hitting them. But over all, I'm dying too much and not killing enough. That being said, if you see something specific that I'm doing wrong, speak up. I may not agree, but I DO listen.
Me the leader. Ya, I know that. And I'm fine with that. I've always taken that role in our team based games. Well, UO. That's the only other one. But anyway, it's fun for me, so I do it. Plus, I know I'll do it better than everyone else anyway. And when things start going bad, I don't think anyone is blaming me, or mad at me. However, I DO feel like they expect me to fix it. So when Gordon sighs, or Leisher complains that he's not getting farm, I feel like that's a passive aggressive (or blatant) hint that I need to change something. Not personally, but as a team. I need to get the team to do something different. Being the leader, it's my job to make sure the team is feeding our carry. Or that top isn't getting ganked by a 14/0/12 roaming champ. Etc. And that's when it gets frustrating for me. Because when I ask "What needs to change? What's going wrong?" The answer is more often "I don't know. You tell me.". Well, I can't! I'm not there! I can't watch every lane and evaluate every situation on the board.
Leisher. You are not my scape goat. You are our carry. Our team strategy is built around getting you fed, you killing bad guys, you winning the game for us. So, if we are losing games, we have to look at why. And when our carry is not scoring kills (but our support is!) and he's saying that he's not getting farm, we have to change things. And it's going to involve you. Either you doing something different, or us doing something different so our carry can carry. Bottom line, it involves you. So don't look at it that I'm questioning, mentioning, evaluating, etc *YOU*. I'm doing all that to our carry. You (our carry) is the focus of our team strategy. So you (our carry) will be the focus of our team discussions.
I have asked MANY times to point out what I'm doing wrong. Believe me, I WANT to know. Even when I don't agree (Noc feeding top on TT), I still listen and go out of my way to prove that I don't, or whatever. Bottom line, it becomes my mission to not feed top, which is the ultimate goal. So whether I agree or not is irrelevant. Know that I'm working on not doing what you say I'm doing wrong. So, fire away. I'll be the first to admit that my Viegar has sucked lately. I had a good run with him before Theo, but lately, it's not there. I'm adequate some games, below that in others. I've since switched to Ziggs and am doing WAY better with him. Not sure why. I went Veigar back in the day because my Ziggs was sucking. . . For what ever reason, I can't land the skill shots with Veigar the way I can with Ziggs right now. I also think people have gotten better at countering Veigar's stun. I used to be able to drop it with the enemy inside of it and they'd still hit it. They don't any more. This forces me to drop the edge of the circle right on the enemy. Much more of a skill shot than before. I've been practicing that, but have work to do still. I AM getting better at leading with my W though so it has a better chance of hitting them. But over all, I'm dying too much and not killing enough. That being said, if you see something specific that I'm doing wrong, speak up. I may not agree, but I DO listen.
Me the leader. Ya, I know that. And I'm fine with that. I've always taken that role in our team based games. Well, UO. That's the only other one. But anyway, it's fun for me, so I do it. Plus, I know I'll do it better than everyone else anyway.
And when things start going bad, I don't think anyone is blaming me, or mad at me. However, I DO feel like they expect me to fix it. So when Gordon sighs, or Leisher complains that he's not getting farm, I feel like that's a passive aggressive (or blatant) hint that I need to change something. Not personally, but as a team. I need to get the team to do something different. Being the leader, it's my job to make sure the team is feeding our carry. Or that top isn't getting ganked by a 14/0/12 roaming champ. Etc. And that's when it gets frustrating for me. Because when I ask "What needs to change? What's going wrong?" The answer is more often "I don't know. You tell me.". Well, I can't! I'm not there! I can't watch every lane and evaluate every situation on the board.Leisher. You are not my scape goat. You are our carry. Our team strategy is built around getting you fed, you killing bad guys, you winning the game for us. So, if we are losing games, we have to look at why. And when our carry is not scoring kills (but our support is!) and he's saying that he's not getting farm, we have to change things. And it's going to involve you. Either you doing something different, or us doing something different so our carry can carry. Bottom line, it involves you. So don't look at it that I'm questioning, mentioning, evaluating, etc *YOU*. I'm doing all that to our carry. You (our carry) is the focus of our team strategy. So you (our carry) will be the focus of our team discussions.
Oh, Gordon. I do laugh when you do dumb things. And that is very passive aggressive of me. I will stop doing that. I will now be full on Rambo aggressive with you. In all honesty, it's a hold over from the early days when you were very resistant to criticism. So, my laugh is a hint that you did something wrong that I wanted to point out but didn't have the balls to say it out loud.
So, I will say something out loud.
Actually, I have already said it out loud. Your signature move is:
Run into the whole enemy team, flip the first person you reach, continue running through the enemy team to poison/slow them until you are dead. Rinse and repeat.
Singed is way more than that. And your Singed isn't good at that. . .
First the latter. You build tanky. Tank is primary, damage is secondary. And when you are tanky, you survive longer. But, your damage is way less. So all the running around in there you are doing isn't doing very much damage. So it's not worth the suicide run you are doing.
More that Singed can do. And this is from watching other Singed players, not just making things up, or whatever. In team fights, you are the initiator, not the tank. We dance and poke the other team. Wait for the weakness. Throw your glue at their carry that is over extended, etc. When you stick them good, run in and flip them. Your team will respond. You can count on us for that. If we don't, then yell at us. But once you flip, fall back. We are focusing whoever you flipped, and you are dying. Flip and fall back to us. But always wait for someone we can burst down. Even if it's not their carry. Just not the tank. Never the tank. So many times, when you flip the tank, the enemy team seizes on this. You flip the tank, so we are compelled to attack the tank. That's when they dash and dive and take out our damage dealers. Who you flip often decides the outcome of that encounter. OF COURSE when you flip the tank, we should all ignore the tank, focus their damage dealers that are diving and then yell at you afterwards. But, we don't. We attack who you flip. And you should never hit your ult and driving through the whole enemy team to get to the carry in the back. They just slow and focus you and you are dead before you reach them. And if you do reach them, you will just flip them into the middle of all their friends where we still can't get to them. We wait for them to make a mistake. They WILL get impatient and start moving forward. Wait for it. . . . Stay on target. . .
When you are alone, or not against the whole other team. Run through them with your poison on, flip them, annoy the shit out of them. With damage as your focus, your flip and poison are going to hurt them. Send them home often and kill them as they get frustrated. There aren't may champs that can 1v1 an equally farmed singed.
Stop using your ult as a mana potion. So many times I hear you say "My ult is on so I'm getting mana back and then I'll be ready to fight." You are wasting all that armor, speed, etc your ult gives you. I also know you use it a lot during the attack. So I'm not accusing you of not knowing how to use your ult. I'm saying you use it frivolously a lot.
Lastly, your teleport. You use that frivolously too. A spell should NEVER be used to help get farm (Scooty does this constantly and it drives me nuts). Using my ghost to get to the minions so I can get some gold before the turret kills them all is a waste in my opinion. Using my flash to go over a wall because I'm too lazy to run around it is a waste. etc. There are too many times when the enemy is pushing a lane or minions are actively killing a tower that those spells should be saved for.
In all honesty, it's a hold over from the early days when you were very resistant to criticism. So, my laugh is a hint that you did something wrong that I wanted to point out but didn't have the balls to say it out loud.So, I will say something out loud.
Actually, I have already said it out loud. Your signature move is:
Run into the whole enemy team, flip the first person you reach, continue running through the enemy team to poison/slow them until you are dead. Rinse and repeat.
Singed is way more than that. And your Singed isn't good at that. . .
First the latter. You build tanky. Tank is primary, damage is secondary. And when you are tanky, you survive longer. But, your damage is way less. So all the running around in there you are doing isn't doing very much damage. So it's not worth the suicide run you are doing.
More that Singed can do. And this is from watching other Singed players, not just making things up, or whatever. In team fights, you are the initiator, not the tank. We dance and poke the other team. Wait for the weakness. Throw your glue at their carry that is over extended, etc. When you stick them good, run in and flip them. Your team will respond. You can count on us for that. If we don't, then yell at us. But once you flip, fall back. We are focusing whoever you flipped, and you are dying. Flip and fall back to us. But always wait for someone we can burst down. Even if it's not their carry. Just not the tank. Never the tank. So many times, when you flip the tank, the enemy team seizes on this. You flip the tank, so we are compelled to attack the tank. That's when they dash and dive and take out our damage dealers. Who you flip often decides the outcome of that encounter. OF COURSE when you flip the tank, we should all ignore the tank, focus their damage dealers that are diving and then yell at you afterwards. But, we don't. We attack who you flip. And you should never hit your ult and driving through the whole enemy team to get to the carry in the back. They just slow and focus you and you are dead before you reach them. And if you do reach them, you will just flip them into the middle of all their friends where we still can't get to them. We wait for them to make a mistake. They WILL get impatient and start moving forward. Wait for it. . . . Stay on target. . .
When you are alone, or not against the whole other team. Run through them with your poison on, flip them, annoy the shit out of them. With damage as your focus, your flip and poison are going to hurt them. Send them home often and kill them as they get frustrated. There aren't may champs that can 1v1 an equally farmed singed.
Stop using your ult as a mana potion. So many times I hear you say "My ult is on so I'm getting mana back and then I'll be ready to fight." You are wasting all that armor, speed, etc your ult gives you. I also know you use it a lot during the attack. So I'm not accusing you of not knowing how to use your ult. I'm saying you use it frivolously a lot.
Lastly, your teleport. You use that frivolously too.
A spell should NEVER be used to help get farm (Scooty does this constantly and it drives me nuts). Using my ghost to get to the minions so I can get some gold before the turret kills them all is a waste in my opinion. Using my flash to go over a wall because I'm too lazy to run around it is a waste. etc. There are too many times when the enemy is pushing a lane or minions are actively killing a tower that those spells should be saved for.1. I agree on everything about Darius.
Is he OP? Yes. Hell, even Riot acknowledges that, and has stated that they're working on doing a rework of his kit. The fucking guy has armor like a tank, hits like an ADC, has Teemo's poison, and Garen ult with no cooldown. Anyone who thinks that kit isn't OP is drunk.
That being said, we rarely see him played by an excellent player. Usually, it's some bum who just gets fed and pretends to be a good player.
Darius is just like Trynd. Cut off his farm, and he's worthless. How do you cut off his farm? Kill him and/or make him recall a lot. Don't let him snowball.
2. As for Singed, if I can add my two cents, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd like to see you work on a full damage Singed. Drop the tanky runes, masteries, and items. Go full bore damage. Research it, and figure out what the pros do. Don't discount magic pen either. When I'm Teemo, those magic pen boots seem to make a world of difference.
We always refer to "that one Singed", and apparently, that's exactly what Singed is supposed to do. There's a podcast called LowElo, which is directly promoted by Riot, and on episode 53 Phreak was on and Singed was discussed. They talked about him living in top, solo pushing it, and being unstoppable. Running past a wave of minions, and insta killing them all with that one pass.
And understand, I don't hate your Singed play at all. In fact, I'm not sure that you don't have a perfect build for Singed on TT. I'm just trying to see if I can help you maximize Singed's potential damage because a Singed who can push an entire lane with one pass (clearing the way for our minions) is a son of a bitch annoyance that must constantly be dealt with by the enemy team. Especially, if he's unkillable by just one champ due to his high damage and escapability. It opens up the rest of the board for Singed's teammates to do whatever they want.
Just keep in mind, that completely altering your build will make you more vulnerable, so there will need to be slight alterations to your play style, and you might die more odten early game...if I remember, "that one Singed" did, in fact, die often early in that game.
3. Your Veigar has sucked lately. When you first started playing him, I hated it because I don't like the champ, but you slowly showed his value. Now, you're back to the beginning with him. You're not hitting his stun, and even when you do, either you're too late with the bomb or they flash out of it.
I think Veigar is your Graves. You have no confidence in him and how you're playing him, just like me with Graves.
I also think Ziggs is your Ezreal. He's far more mobile, particularly due to his suitcase bomb and slow. He's got an almost global ult. But the most important thing is that you feel confident with him.
Not sure what the fix is...probably practice.
4. I know I'm not your scapegoat, but it feels that way lately. Look, we've all fought. It happens. It's part of being on a team. I think the primary thing we need to do is work on better communication. Don't let things snowball. Give me a second to calm down if I get frustrated (good advice for this entire team of competitive people). And also, you know there's more shit going on then just me being frustrated. Call it out instead of just bickering with me. If you're honestly not seeing it, wait until post game and ask if anyone saw anything. We're all usually much calmer and able to take criticism post game.
Is he OP? Yes. Hell, even Riot acknowledges that, and has stated that they're working on doing a rework of his kit. The fucking guy has armor like a tank, hits like an ADC, has Teemo's poison, and Garen ult with no cooldown. Anyone who thinks that kit isn't OP is drunk.
That being said, we rarely see him played by an excellent player. Usually, it's some bum who just gets fed and pretends to be a good player.
Darius is just like Trynd. Cut off his farm, and he's worthless. How do you cut off his farm? Kill him and/or make him recall a lot. Don't let him snowball.
2. As for Singed, if I can add my two cents, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd like to see you work on a full damage Singed. Drop the tanky runes, masteries, and items. Go full bore damage. Research it, and figure out what the pros do. Don't discount magic pen either. When I'm Teemo, those magic pen boots seem to make a world of difference.
We always refer to "that one Singed", and apparently, that's exactly what Singed is supposed to do. There's a podcast called LowElo, which is directly promoted by Riot, and on episode 53 Phreak was on and Singed was discussed. They talked about him living in top, solo pushing it, and being unstoppable. Running past a wave of minions, and insta killing them all with that one pass.
And understand, I don't hate your Singed play at all. In fact, I'm not sure that you don't have a perfect build for Singed on TT. I'm just trying to see if I can help you maximize Singed's potential damage because a Singed who can push an entire lane with one pass (clearing the way for our minions) is a son of a bitch annoyance that must constantly be dealt with by the enemy team. Especially, if he's unkillable by just one champ due to his high damage and escapability. It opens up the rest of the board for Singed's teammates to do whatever they want.
Just keep in mind, that completely altering your build will make you more vulnerable, so there will need to be slight alterations to your play style, and you might die more odten early game...if I remember, "that one Singed" did, in fact, die often early in that game.
3. Your Veigar has sucked lately. When you first started playing him, I hated it because I don't like the champ, but you slowly showed his value. Now, you're back to the beginning with him. You're not hitting his stun, and even when you do, either you're too late with the bomb or they flash out of it.
I think Veigar is your Graves. You have no confidence in him and how you're playing him, just like me with Graves.
I also think Ziggs is your Ezreal. He's far more mobile, particularly due to his suitcase bomb and slow. He's got an almost global ult. But the most important thing is that you feel confident with him.
Not sure what the fix is...probably practice.
4. I know I'm not your scapegoat, but it feels that way lately. Look, we've all fought. It happens. It's part of being on a team. I think the primary thing we need to do is work on better communication. Don't let things snowball. Give me a second to calm down if I get frustrated (good advice for this entire team of competitive people). And also, you know there's more shit going on then just me being frustrated. Call it out instead of just bickering with me. If you're honestly not seeing it, wait until post game and ask if anyone saw anything. We're all usually much calmer and able to take criticism post game.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell